Screw collusion...THIS is the problem online....

[frank_iii]

[ QUOTE ]
i love playerview. oh, not because i use it. i love that it's creating a whole new crop of players that have to rely on it like a crutch. i can't wait til they move up and have to start using their brains, which have all grown weak from advanced atrophy.

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHA, second best post in the thread!

I must be a missing out on something, but I don't use these tools to make my decisions. They might influence me to call down or isolate a LAG, but I'd know much of that after a few orbits anyway.

Perhaps I'm not as advanced in my usage of the programs, but I don't think they help all that much with the common marginal situations that crop up so often...I still need to think and put people on hands.

EDIT: How much analysis can you really do against an LP-P or LA-A, anyway? No tool's going to give the magic answer.

[gasoltub]

LP-P
Calls a raise preflop with any Q or higher
Check-Calls to river with any pair







[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[flair1239]

I use PT primarily to examine my own game. I like to watch sessions and borderline hands.

The next thing I use it for is to identify weak players. IMO, it works best identifying extremes (ie. PFR over 40% over a period of hands).

I think it is overated as far as trying to micro-classify players. For instance I know there have been sessions where I have ran 30% VPIP with 10% PFR, however this is not typical for me. Other sessions I know my stats would probably be passive. Ususally there is a reason for it.

So to weigh-in I think the opponent information in PT has a limited usefullenss, that is Identifying extremes and giving you a very general snap-shot of a particular player. So I really don't see it as a huge threat, and I think some people overstate it's importance in their win rates.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
big deal. The fact is though that only a very small fraction of people know it even exists/know that people are using their past play against them.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very true.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, and whose fault is that? Playing poker for money is about taking every advantage you can. If the fish don't use PT and PV or GT that is b/c they are the ones too lazy/stupid to find out about it.

(Not meaning that in a malicious way AC [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

[RollaJ]

[ QUOTE ]
LP-P
Calls a raise preflop with any Q or higher
Check-Calls to river with any pair







[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Only 4 handed or less [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[trainslayer]

i just started using PT (as well as these forums) in the last month, so my experience probably doesn't count for much, but so far the most useful thing i used it for is to plug up my own game. I've been playing online for about a year at the micro limits and was down about $300. i found SSHE in December and it was so disconcerting to learn how little i understood that i quit playing all but play money for a month. i started playin again in January and so far i've made back up $115 of that loss. PT tells me i'm still a little too loose and not nearly aggressive enuf. point is, if the other fishes don't invest the time or energy to turn their games around, well that's their bad....and my good.

[rdu $teve]

[ QUOTE ]
How is the information getting on to the Party screen? I'm sure "none" of party's code was used/modified to make that happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point exactly. Poker tracker uses the hand history files to create the database. Then Gametime+ pulls the various stats from the database and displays them on an overlapping window. Party's software is not hacked into or modified in any way. All of the neccesary info is available to anyone at all times.

In order for you to see another player's cards (before you are supposed to), you would have to hack into party poker's software and modify it, of make a program to leak the info to you. I'm not a computer programing wiz, so I dont know all the details; I doubt the info, about another players cards, is even sent to your computer until the hand is over anyway.

My comments were directed toward your statement about "what happens when someone writes a program to let them see you cards". Either way, there is a clear difference between seeing their cards, and using software to observe the tendencies in their playing style.

[Beavis68]

[ QUOTE ]
Justify it any way you want, the bottom line is that it is information that you where either a) too lazy to gather, or b) too stupid to gather.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like it is being gathered pretty efficiently too me.... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[nongice626]

biumpedg d gdgedsh

[college kid]

[ QUOTE ]
You sign the T+C to say you won't use an external program, so it's cheating.

However whether it is prudent to use something in self-defence because many other people are using it is a totally different matter, and I would agree that it's stupid to deliberately handicap yourself

Information sent to an outside program is not permitted

You are sending their information to an outside program.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]


I found this thread searching for something else and even though I doubt anybody will ever see this post, I am putting in my say. I have it direct from Party stating that article 6 of the T&C relates to programs which take info from Party as the hand is happening--i.e. purge the program and relay realtime info. And I quote from the e-mail: "Artificial intelligence software is prohibited and we take measures to block it. PokerTracker and PlayerView are not artificial intelligence software. We discourage the use of any software which gives any player an unfair advantage. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to" yada yada yada and so on. As stupid as it is, I told Party I used PT and PV and they just send me a bunch of e-mails stating that otuside software is bad. I e-mailed them quoting their own e-mail and their T&C and they have confirmed that I am NOT in violation of the T&C. They send me nasty e-mails, but my account isn't frozen or anything, and I have been open with them and they have no reason to withhold any of my moneys. I have also saved the e-mails and their record numbers (from the subject line) in case they deside later that I am not worthy of trying to keep as a customer.