What Tiffany Willaimson did right

[benkahuna]

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I think Tiffany played great. There wouldn't be nearly this uproar about her supposedly "bad" play if she weren't black.

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I completely disagree. Do you have any evidence to back up your assertion?

I have evidence to the contrary. I've seen Asian and white players have their play criticized just as much. If we follow what I'm guessing is your logic, it looks a lot like the boards are equal opportunity nits.

Now, I do believe that if Tiffany had had the same hands on the air and hadn't turned out the same result, there would be less criticism.

[Quicksilvre]

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I think Tiffany played great. There wouldn't be nearly this uproar about her supposedly "bad" play if she weren't black.

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I'm not sure about that. Varkonyi and Dannenman have been critized similarly.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think Tiffany played great. There wouldn't be nearly this uproar about her supposedly "bad" play if she weren't black.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely disagree. Do you have any evidence to back up your assertion?

I have evidence to the contrary. I've seen Asian and white players have their play criticized just as much. If we follow what I'm guessing is your logic, it looks a lot like the boards are equal opportunity nits.

Now, I do believe that if Tiffany had had the same hands on the air and hadn't turned out the same result, there would be less criticism.

[/ QUOTE ]

She definately didn't play great. However, she must have done something right to get that far.

I think the reaction to her is a result primarily of some very questionable plays and somewhat questionable behavior. I don't think people are reacting out of racism as such.

However, I have noticed on this forum a tendency of people to be hostile and excessively critical of amateurs who have done well, as well as pro TV regulars. Some of this is a result of jealousy, which may be intensified when the successful player is a black woman.

[grandgnu]

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Every insult which comes after my post in this thread is going to be met with a suspension.


Edit: 1 quick suspension already. Feel free to test me more.

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Dynasty, can you confirm that the poster is actually Tiffany? It just seems that everytime these posts come up after an airing on TV, that new accounts are created to represent the players, and my bet is that 99% of the time they are not the actual individual.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Every insult which comes after my post in this thread is going to be met with a suspension.


Edit: 1 quick suspension already. Feel free to test me more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dynasty, can you confirm that the poster is actually Tiffany? It just seems that everytime these posts come up after an airing on TV, that new accounts are created to represent the players, and my bet is that 99% of the time they are not the actual individual.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am 100% certain that "tiffany" is Tiffany Williamson. When I saw her posting, I contacted her (not through 2+2 information) to verify it.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Every insult which comes after my post in this thread is going to be met with a suspension.


Edit: 1 quick suspension already. Feel free to test me more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dynasty, can you confirm that the poster is actually Tiffany? It just seems that everytime these posts come up after an airing on TV, that new accounts are created to represent the players, and my bet is that 99% of the time they are not the actual individual.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am 100% certain that "tiffany" is Tiffany Williamson. When I saw her posting, I contacted her (not through 2+2 information) to verify it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, it does just seem odd, since this type of thing happens all the time. Perhaps Tiffany could enlighten us as to how she came across these forums?

p.s. Tiffany, can I borrow 20 bucks, I'm a little short on cash this week, woo-hoo-hoo! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[spsurfin_Michael]

[ QUOTE ]
Every insult which comes after my post in this thread is going to be met with a suspension.


Edit: 1 quick suspension already. Feel free to test me more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Help me understand this:

Quoting this portion of the "Terms of Usage"

"Operating Policies"

The operating policies of 2+2 set forth the rules that govern your activity on the 2+2 website. While using 2+2 website, you may not post or transmit any unlawful, threatening, abusive, libelous, defamatory, obscene, pornographic, profane, or otherwise objectionable information of any kind; including without limitation any transmissions constituting or encouraging conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability, or otherwise violate any local, state, national or international laws.

While you are free to post on the 2+2 website using an alias, you may not post pretending to be someone else.

2+2 and ConJelCo reserve the right to refuse to post or to remove any information or materials, in whole or in part, that, in its sole discretion, are unacceptable, undesirable, or in violation of this Agreement. Continued abuse will result in your being banned from posting on the 2+2 website."


Exactly how does criticizing a player’s play qualify as an offense that warrants a suspension? Certainly personal attacks would qualify, but strategic differences of opinion do not qualify.

Secondarily, is it the Moderator’s intention to only apply the “policy” to “Tiffany” related posts or will this policy be enforced for all members. I see player after player being referred to as “donks” and worse. Chris Moneymaker, Greg Reymer and Phil Hellmuth have taken their fare share of “abuse” so where are all those member suspensions? Pick any subject and you will consistently find violations of the “Terms of Usage.”

If you expect all the members to follow rules, then the Moderations must follow the rules too—not just when it is convenient for them. The Moderators must be impartial to all disputes and specifically not become emotionally involved.

I believe the Moderators owe the members of this board an explanation of this inconsistent enforcement of the rules. Obviously, the Moderators have made a serious error and a significant injustice followed—they have punished some members, but not others.

It is my opinion that the Moderators owe the membership an apology, and need to make restitution to the members they selectively and emotionally punished. The Moderators need to equally and fairly administer to rules and take responsibility when they make mistakes.

Respectfully,

Michael

[ QUOTE ]
I think Tiffany played great. There wouldn't be nearly this uproar about her supposedly "bad" play if she weren't black.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I don't know if her Race comes into play here in regards to an uproar, I'm sure in part the fact she's a WOMAN and made it that far, is.

I've seen this factor in action, in tournaments I've played in the few years that I've played in them, where we get down to the final few tables (or the final table), and of course I'm always the 'lucky one' time after time, yet they are the 'skilled ones' I knocked out.

I've also seen guys jeer other guys when I (or another woman) knocked them out where they say 'you got knocked out by a GIRL?? You're such a wuss!' they tell them.

It's been a while I think a few years at least, since a woman made it this deep into the WSOP. An amazing feat IMO, given that there were over 5600 people in the event, and women were only represented by 5 percent of the field.

Thus I think gender is indeed a factor here, and most (Young) men hate the idea of being beaten, or seeing their PEERS beaten, by a woman.

There is no need to brign race into this. Im so sick of everyone having to bring race or sex into issues. These things have no wieght in poker ability. Plain and simply put there is an uproar because of the way ESPN presented it. This is what a TV network wants to keep ratings increasing. It is one hand yes but she did make a big deal over it which is why there is an uproar because she was making it one while she was playing it. I dont understand why this is being discussed more than all the other novice plays that have been shown so far. I have seen worse plays and tougher decisions. This has been talked to death already so lets just drop it already. And please stop talking about race and sex. That is complete BS and Im so sick of hearing that stuff already all year in the news and now this. Come on and grow up.

[Autocratic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think Tiffany played great. There wouldn't be nearly this uproar about her supposedly "bad" play if she weren't black.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I don't know if her Race comes into play here in regards to an uproar, I'm sure in part the fact she's a WOMAN and made it that far, is.

I've seen this factor in action, in tournaments I've played in the few years that I've played in them, where we get down to the final few tables (or the final table), and of course I'm always the 'lucky one' time after time, yet they are the 'skilled ones' I knocked out.

I've also seen guys jeer other guys when I (or another woman) knocked them out where they say 'you got knocked out by a GIRL?? You're such a wuss!' they tell them.

It's been a while I think a few years at least, since a woman made it this deep into the WSOP. An amazing feat IMO, given that there were over 5600 people in the event, and women were only represented by 5 percent of the field.

Thus I think gender is indeed a factor here, and most (Young) men hate the idea of being beaten, or seeing their PEERS beaten, by a woman.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure that it's more directly related to her cashing out huge in the biggest, most prestigious event in poker when she clearly was not that skilled. Her being a woman is irrelevant, people here heap praise on Jennifer Harman when she's discussed.