Disprove the Bible

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Good question...I'll come back to it when I have time. The first thing I'll say here is that there is an eternal judgement for good and evil on this world but sometimes our problem is that we focus too much on the here and now. In other words we operate on a 100 hand scale which God declares to be too small.

[/ QUOTE ]

I look forward to hearing your response.

Just to clarify for those who don't know, the problem of evil is the following.

Axioms:

1. If God exists, he is omnipotent, omniscient and morally perfect.
2. Omnipotence implies the ability to destroy all evil
3. Omniscience implies the ability to be aware that evil exists.
4. Moral perfection implies the desire to eliminate evil.
5. Evil exists.

Arugment: Assume God exists. We know that evil exists. Then one of these possibilities must be true:

God can't eliminate all evil OR
God doesn't know that evil exists OR
God doesn't have the moral perfection necessary to want to eliminate evil.

Conclusion: God does not exist.

This comes first from David Hume: "Is He willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is impotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Whence then is evil?"

[/ QUOTE ]

God allows free will. If evil was removed from the world man would not have free will. Man was put on the earth to be tested. Evil tries to tempt man away from god.

Evil cannot be in the presence of god, there is no evil in heaven.

I am not religious but your agrument pretty much dismisses some very well known and obvious assertions of religion.

[dr. klopek]

[ QUOTE ]
Man was put on the earth to be tested.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] god.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
God allows free will. If evil was removed from the world man would not have free will. [...]

Evil cannot be in the presence of god, there is no evil in heaven.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is St. Augustine's rebuttal to the problem of evil.

Free will does not require the existence of evil. As you say, in heaven there is no evil but there is free will. Moreover, there is plenty of evil and suffering that does not arise from free will, e.g., last December's tsunami in Southeast Asia.

[ QUOTE ]
Man was put on the earth to be tested. Evil tries to tempt man away from god.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is this an acceptable explanation to you?

[ QUOTE ]
I am not religious but your agrument pretty much dismisses some very well known and obvious assertions of religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't my argument. It's an ancient argument, first due to Epicurus (ancient Greek) and studied intensely by David Hume (18th century).

I believe that Christian teachings imply that God is all powerful, all knowing and all good. That is axiom 1. I believe that omnipotence, omniscience and moral perfection imply what axioms 2--4 state. I believe that evil exists. From this, the next statement follows logically. I don't think that I ignored any very well known and obvious assertions of religion; in fact, I used one of the primary assertions of religion and encountered disaster.

Finally, to add a little on my personal beliefs. I believe there is no God. I have believed this since I was 6. However, I am an agnostic. I admit that I can not know or give proof that there is no God. I can only try and justify my beliefs as you try to justify yours.

[Chris_P]

The bible it self tends to disprove itself.....it has been re-written thousands of times and each has been interpreted fromt greek and latin documents which as a result of their fairly basic language can be interpreted in many ways......

for example...religious fundamentalists interpret and read a diffrent bible from your average anglican.

[KidPokerX]

lol, ok so then the answer is clear - there's nothing more to disprove :P

[[censored]]

It's tough to answer you questions because when it comes to existance of God, I honestly don't know and I can't argue with conviction on either side.

I know that some people are 100% sure either way but at this time in my life I am absolutely undecided.

I live my life that was as well. I don't go to church or practice religion but I try to live my life in a moral manner.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
The bible it self tends to disprove itself.....it has been re-written thousands of times and each has been interpreted from Greek and Latin documents which as a result of their fairly basic language can be interpreted in many ways......

for example...religious fundamentalists interpret and read a different bible from your average Anglican.

[/ QUOTE ]

some important facts that cannot be disputed:

1) The commonly quoted bible in the USA is the King James edition. In 1604, King James I of England authorized that a new translation of the Bible into English be started. It was finished in 1611, just 85 years after the first translation of the New Testament into English appeared (Tyndale, 1526). The Authorized Version, or King James Version, quickly became the standard for English-speaking Protestants. What we commonly forget to discuss is that King James essentially had the bible re-written to suit his needs.
2) The old testament in the King James edition is vastly different from the modern Judaic bible - which IS only the old testament.
3) Even modern Judaica scholars are baffled by the oldest known bible in existence, the dead sea scrolls. When I last did my research on these scrolls the translation was complete, but they were not releasing the text to non-scholars yet due to a huge controversy. Apparently the Dead Sea Scrolls had little to do with today's Torah (the bible)

In short.... the bible is a very good moral storybook. But it has been re-written so many times that we have lost it's original intent or meaning. A perfect example of this would be Christianity... isn't it odd how Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi (who to this date is highly respected for his reform of the Jewish religion by Jewish scholars) yet Christianity has essentially broken away from almost all traditionally Jewish customs or beliefs?

I like what Jesse "the mind" Ventura once said.... Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. He was insensitive but right.

On the very same webpage I found these quotes from equally famous thinkers (many who should be better respected than The Body):

[ QUOTE ]
Albert Einstein was named Time magazine's Person of the Twentieth Century. He said: "I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation. . . . Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."

Charles Darwin is widely considered one of the greatest persons of the nineteenth century. He stated: "I can hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my father, brother and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished. And this is a damnable doctrine."

Sigmund Freud maintained, "Religion is comparable to a childhood neurosis." He also said, "Neither in my private life, nor in my writings, have I ever made a secret of being an out-and-out unbeliever." As for preventing and treating the psychological harms of religion, Dr. Freud's prescription was clear: "When a man is freed of religion, he has a better chance to live a normal and wholesome life."

Thomas Edison asserted: "So far as the religion of the day is concerned, it is a damned fake. . . . Religion is all bunk. . . . All bibles are man-made." H. L. Mencken commented, "I believe that religion, generally speaking, has been a curse to mankind."

Clarence Darrow explained, "I don't believe in God, because I don't believe in Mother Goose." Elizabeth Cady Stanton related: "The memory of my own suffering has prevented me from ever shadowing one young soul with the superstitions of the Christian religion."

[/ QUOTE ]

free your mind people..... free your minds....

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
The bible it self tends to disprove itself.....it has been re-written thousands of times and each has been interpreted fromt greek and latin documents which as a result of their fairly basic language can be interpreted in many ways......

for example...religious fundamentalists interpret and read a diffrent bible from your average anglican.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your first point is true for most ancient works of antiquity. There is much evidence, documental and archalogical that supports the Bible. The stories about King David, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has become increasingly corroborated. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah has been examined and reported by archaelogist Clifford Wilson.

Every reference to an Assryrian king has been proven correct, an excavation in the 60s confirmed that the Israelites could have entered Jerusalem by way of a tunnel during David's reign. There is evidence the world did have a single language at one time.

Archaeologists digging in Turkey have discovered records of the Hittites. The great archaeologist William F. Albright declared "There can be no doubt that archaelogy can confirmedthe substantial historicity of the Old Testament tradition".

Noted Roman historican Colin J. Hemer (The Book of Acts in the Setting of Hellenistic History) shows how archaelogy has confirmed not dozens but hundreds and hundreds of details from the biblical account of the early church. Prominent historian Sir William Ramsay started out as a skeptic but after studying Acts he concluded that "in various deatils the narrative showed marvelous truth"

Classical historian A.N. Sherwin-White said "For Acts the confirmation of historicity is overwhelming" and that "any attempt to reject its basic historicity must now appear absurd"

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
free your mind people..... free your minds....

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny, I'd say the same thing about non-believers.

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
free your mind people..... free your minds....

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny, I'd say the same thing about non-believers.

[/ QUOTE ]

NH.