Bush asks for sacrifice he doesn't ask of himself

[Autocratic]

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stay in school. Try to learn. Try not to be so sure about things that you don't understand.

Discipline yourself to have an open mind. Listen closely to those who have experiences that you have yet to have had.

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This is partly why I've chosen to go to college instead of join the military (which I did consider during high school...). I just happen to think (at this point in my life) that the military is the best path for me. If I were to again consider joining the military, I would be considering the long term, not just whether I support the war that is going on this very second.

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ROTC.

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This is partly why I've chosen to go to college instead of join the military (which I did consider during high school...). I just happen to think (at this point in my life) that the military is the best path for me.

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This paragraph is contradictory and makes no sense.

[DVaut1]

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This is partly why I've chosen to go to college instead of join the military (which I did consider during high school...). I just happen to think (at this point in my life) that the military is the best path for me

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This paragraph is contradictory and makes no sense.


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In BCPVP's defense, I think it's just a typo.

[NCAces]

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So, a 25-year old Special-Ed teacher who supports the war in Iraq is a hypocrite if he doesn't leave his students to go enlist? What if he also believes in teaching Special-Ed kids?

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My feeling is that if an able-bodied american between the ages of 18-35 supports the war but doesn't enlist, the burden of proof is on him/her to illustrate exactly how their current position contributes more to the war effort than than they would contribute by enlisting. I don't argue that their are people whose positions make it necessary for them NOT to enlist (doctors, police, etc), but on a micro-socialigical level (i.e. this web site), none of the war supporters have illustrated, in my opinion, any real justification for not serving. I haven't seen any evidence that any of your current contributions to the war effort are so essential that they preclude you from enlisting.

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I think everyone has missed the main point. That is that we have a voluntary, standing military composed of people who volunteered to protect our country. They joined because they wanted to jump out of planes, shoot people, learn electronics, or because it paid better than what they were doing before. But, the point is, they volunteered to be there. Now, I don't like to jump out of planes, don't want to personally shoot people, and I already know enough about electronics. So I chose not join up. So far, so good. They have a job they chose, and I am doing what I want to do.

Now, we find that there a bunch of bad guys out there trying to kill us. So, we take this standing military that was maintained exactly for this reason - to go break out a can of whoop-ass on the bad guys - and we send them to do the job for which they volunteered. Now, even though I didn't volunteer because I don't want to jump out of planes, etc., it would be absurd to say that I can't support the a cause that I think is just. We have a military for a reason, and I don't have to be a member to express my views in how they are best used. Period. As an intelligent, logical person, I think the course of action we have taken is the best course of action to ensure the security of our country and way of life. Just because I am not in the military doesn't mean I have to check my brain at the door.

Now, if that makes me a hypocrite in your eyes, fine, call me a hypocrite. I am only operating in a realty called the real World, where we have a military designed to do exactly what it is doing, while you are in your imaginary world where the 50+% of the people who support the war are supposed to quit their jobs and go be a soldier, or else shut up. So, we can all agree that I am a hypocrite and you live in a dream world. There, we're even.

NCAces

[Roybert]

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So, a 25-year old Special-Ed teacher who supports the war in Iraq is a hypocrite if he doesn't leave his students to go enlist? What if he also believes in teaching Special-Ed kids?

[/ QUOTE ]

My feeling is that if an able-bodied american between the ages of 18-35 supports the war but doesn't enlist, the burden of proof is on him/her to illustrate exactly how their current position contributes more to the war effort than than they would contribute by enlisting. I don't argue that their are people whose positions make it necessary for them NOT to enlist (doctors, police, etc), but on a micro-socialigical level (i.e. this web site), none of the war supporters have illustrated, in my opinion, any real justification for not serving. I haven't seen any evidence that any of your current contributions to the war effort are so essential that they preclude you from enlisting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think everyone has missed the main point. That is that we have a voluntary, standing military composed of people who volunteered to protect our country. They joined because they wanted to jump out of planes, shoot people, learn electronics, or because it paid better than what they were doing before. But, the point is, they volunteered to be there. Now, I don't like to jump out of planes, don't want to personally shoot people, and I already know enough about electronics. So I chose not join up. So far, so good. They have a job they chose, and I am doing what I want to do.

Now, we find that there a bunch of bad guys out there trying to kill us. So, we take this standing military that was maintained exactly for this reason - to go break out a can of whoop-ass on the bad guys - and we send them to do the job for which they volunteered. Now, even though I didn't volunteer because I don't want to jump out of planes, etc., it would be absurd to say that I can't support the a cause that I think is just. We have a military for a reason, and I don't have to be a member to express my views in how they are best used. Period. As an intelligent, logical person, I think the course of action we have taken is the best course of action to ensure the security of our country and way of life. Just because I am not in the military doesn't mean I have to check my brain at the door.

Now, if that makes me a hypocrite in your eyes, fine, call me a hypocrite. I am only operating in a realty called the real World, where we have a military designed to do exactly what it is doing, while you are in your imaginary world where the 50+% of the people who support the war are supposed to quit their jobs and go be a soldier, or else shut up. So, we can all agree that I am a hypocrite and you live in a dream world. There, we're even.

NCAces

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http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...rmy-goal_x.htm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8546243/

[NCAces]

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So, a 25-year old Special-Ed teacher who supports the war in Iraq is a hypocrite if he doesn't leave his students to go enlist? What if he also believes in teaching Special-Ed kids?

[/ QUOTE ]

My feeling is that if an able-bodied american between the ages of 18-35 supports the war but doesn't enlist, the burden of proof is on him/her to illustrate exactly how their current position contributes more to the war effort than than they would contribute by enlisting. I don't argue that their are people whose positions make it necessary for them NOT to enlist (doctors, police, etc), but on a micro-socialigical level (i.e. this web site), none of the war supporters have illustrated, in my opinion, any real justification for not serving. I haven't seen any evidence that any of your current contributions to the war effort are so essential that they preclude you from enlisting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think everyone has missed the main point. That is that we have a voluntary, standing military composed of people who volunteered to protect our country. They joined because they wanted to jump out of planes, shoot people, learn electronics, or because it paid better than what they were doing before. But, the point is, they volunteered to be there. Now, I don't like to jump out of planes, don't want to personally shoot people, and I already know enough about electronics. So I chose not join up. So far, so good. They have a job they chose, and I am doing what I want to do.

Now, we find that there a bunch of bad guys out there trying to kill us. So, we take this standing military that was maintained exactly for this reason - to go break out a can of whoop-ass on the bad guys - and we send them to do the job for which they volunteered. Now, even though I didn't volunteer because I don't want to jump out of planes, etc., it would be absurd to say that I can't support the a cause that I think is just. We have a military for a reason, and I don't have to be a member to express my views in how they are best used. Period. As an intelligent, logical person, I think the course of action we have taken is the best course of action to ensure the security of our country and way of life. Just because I am not in the military doesn't mean I have to check my brain at the door.

Now, if that makes me a hypocrite in your eyes, fine, call me a hypocrite. I am only operating in a realty called the real World, where we have a military designed to do exactly what it is doing, while you are in your imaginary world where the 50+% of the people who support the war are supposed to quit their jobs and go be a soldier, or else shut up. So, we can all agree that I am a hypocrite and you live in a dream world. There, we're even.

NCAces

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http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...rmy-goal_x.htm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8546243/

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Ok, but what's your point? The military made their goals in 2003 and 2004, but doesn't look like it will in 2005. What does that mean related to my point?

The next time you want to impress with your google prowess, keep reading to find the links that don't agree with your position ... namely that in July the Army met or exceeded their recruitment goals, and are on track do so in August. That kinda makes your links outdated and irrelevent.

And that doesn't even address the fact that the Marines, Air Force and Navy have not had a drop at all,and that re-enlistment goals are being exceeded by all branches of the military.

So, no one, and I mean no one with any sense could argue that a small, temporary drop in recruitment could in any way support the idea that we are going to lose our volunteer military. Are you truly surprised that recruiting is more difficult during a shooting war?

Jeez, like posting links to two articles without comment is in some way discussing an issue.

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/...0810-4393.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...081001513.html


NCAces

[vulturesrow]

Seems like the meaning of the word hypocrisy is being mangled here.

[PorscheNGuns]

NCAces For-the-Win

-Matt

[Roybert]

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Ok, but what's your point? The military made their goals in 2003 and 2004, but doesn't look like it will in 2005. What does that mean related to my point?



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My point is that the army doesn't haev as many troops that it feels it needs at this point. Your original thread argued that it was ludicrous to argue that everyone who supported the war should quit their jobs and join the military. The fundamental flaw with this logic is that it assumes that the military would accept everyone who tried to join. Come on, you know that the military wouldn't allow over 50% of the population to sign up. At a point, they would start turning people away.

If you feel that we as a nation are so threatened by Iraq that war is essential to our well-being, you should volunteer to fight in that war (assuming you are of the right age, able-bodied, and not currently employeed in an essential position). Let the military decide if they need you or not. Currently, it looks like at least the Army certainly does.

[PorscheNGuns]

If you feel that we as a nation are so threatened by Iraq that war is essential to our well-being, you should express your opinion that the American military should be authorized by our President to do what they've been trained to do and disable that threat.

FYP