The piece of sh*t didn't get enough of a beating if you ask me...

[Jules22]

i would just like to add that this type of insane aggression in the face of an overwhelming police presence makes me a little bit uneasy, like the guy who killed the judge in his trial, and then went on a grand theft auto killing spree in georgia, or not 10 miles away from me some psycho crept up on a cop at a gas station and sprayed his brains all over the place FOR NO REASON at all. psychos are getting more bold everyday, its a little worriesome :I

also worth noting is the guy who killed the cop in the next town over from mine got the death penalty i believe, which certainly was aided by the fact the cops didnt beat the [censored] out of him when they found him

[Edge34]

Apparently, after doing a quick google, I find that Rhode Island doesn't have the death penalty...now this guy is REALLY lucky.

So what we see with that is that he knows the WORST he's going to get is like 15 life sentences - now I'm going to assume that knowing he's going away forever after he killed the first cop, he wasn't too partial to just laying down and letting the officers put the cuffs on him. Not scared to kill one cop for no reason, probably not scared to take more with him if he can.

I still say he got what he deserved. And without any idea about how much force was necessary to subdue the guy, I don't think there's enough evidence for a case top put the cops in jail like so many people seem to want to do.

[Myrtle]

.....for the sake of discussion:

Let's say the 'perp' had an IQ of 70, virtually no comprehension of normal spoken language, had an extensive, documented history of significant mental disorders (i.e. paranoid delusions, schizophenia, psychosis, i.e.) and along with that had a well known, irrational fear of the police.

Would the above change your perspective on what happened?

What if he was your brother/son/neighbor?

Would that change anything at all?

...........just curious.

[Sponger15SB]

I'm really suprised that everyone here is rushing to the defense of police officers. I thought everyone hated them?

[LaggyLou]

[ QUOTE ]
please consider fukking yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice.

Let me put this as directly as I can: You are a disgrace. You took an oath, and that means nothing to you. I hope for your son's sake that he can learn about honor and what it means to keep one's word from his mother because he obviously won't learn it from you.

[ThaSaltCracka]

here is what should have happened. This guy should have been beaten and then most likely murked by the punk ass pigs. Then these damn bully cops should have been prosecuted and convicted for this murder. This would seem to be the best scenario for the whole situation.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
.....for the sake of discussion:

Let's say the 'perp' had an IQ of 70, virtually no comprehension of normal spoken language, had an extensive, documented history of significant mental disorders (i.e. paranoid delusions, schizophenia, psychosis, i.e.) and along with that had a well known, irrational fear of the police.

Would the above change your perspective on what happened?

What if he was your brother/son/neighbor?

Would that change anything at all?

...........just curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) If he's got that much of a documented history, he belongs in an institution. So in that case, no, it doesn't change anything. Shame, really, but you pay consequences for your actions. He's alive, and as I've said about 79025 times in this thread, we don't know how much of a fight this bastard put up.

2a) Brother/Son: I'm more pissed that he killed a cop than I am that he took an ass-whippin' for it. That said, while as a parent, I would love my child unconditionally, people make choices. I don't feel any differently in that case either. You make your bed, you're gonna lie in it. I feel terrible for the families of the murdered detective and for the family of the garbage that murdered him - both have suffered great losses.

2b) Neighbor....not really sure where this stands. I'm not MORE pissed about it...and I'm not going to be less pissed...so I guess this doesn't change it either.

[Myrtle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
.....for the sake of discussion:

Let's say the 'perp' had an IQ of 70, virtually no comprehension of normal spoken language, had an extensive, documented history of significant mental disorders (i.e. paranoid delusions, schizophenia, psychosis, i.e.) and along with that had a well known, irrational fear of the police.

Would the above change your perspective on what happened?

What if he was your brother/son/neighbor?

Would that change anything at all?

...........just curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) If he's got that much of a documented history, he belongs in an institution. So in that case, no, it doesn't change anything. Shame, really, but you pay consequences for your actions. He's alive, and as I've said about 79025 times in this thread, we don't know how much of a fight this bastard put up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reports are still sketchy, but it appears that he does have that much of a documented history. It also appears that his family has been actively trying to get him help, but to no avail. Does the term ‘diminished capacity’ play a role in this case? Do you acknowledge the complexity of this kind of situation? When one is not aware of the consequences of one’s action, how does our legal system handle that? I believe that wiser minds than you or me have decided that question. As far as what kind of a fight he put up? We’ll probably never know for sure, but the report was that he jumped out of a third story window that was supposedly 50-60 off the ground. What kind of a fight do you think he was in shape to put up after that?


[ QUOTE ]
2a) Brother/Son: I'm more pissed that he killed a cop than I am that he took an ass-whippin' for it. That said, while as a parent, I would love my child unconditionally, people make choices. I don't feel any differently in that case either. You make your bed, you're gonna lie in it. I feel terrible for the families of the murdered detective and for the family of the garbage that murdered him - both have suffered great losses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is ‘pissed’ your primary response to this? If so, I am saddened by that. You say....as a parent......Are you a parent? I noticed in your profile that you are a student. Do you have children? Are they healthy? It’s pretty easy to say that........ “I would love my child unconditionally, people make choices. I don't feel any differently in that case either. You make your bed, you're gonna lie in it.”. I hope you never have to be confronted with the monstrous consequences of having to put that statement to the test. I can tell you from experience, that it is not a black & white/cut-and-dry issue as your statement implies you think it is.

The statement that you make about feeling terrible for both families is right on the button It is a tragic, horrific situation that no one should have to deal with. Labeling the perp as ‘garbage’ seems to me to be a rush to judgment without any factual evidence?

Please don't misunderstand what I'm trying to say to you here. This is not a personal attack on you, rather it is my response to many posts in this thread by folks that appear to be willing to rush to judgment about a situation where there is so far little disclosure of all of the facts that actually occured.

This type of mentality has been prevalent many times in many societies and history has provided us a lesson of where it leads. It's generally has not been pretty.

Reacting with a burst of anger and testosterone has proven many times to be more often more tragic in it's consequences as the original act that provoked the response.

[Edge34]

Myrtle,

Thanks for taking a fair, logical path on this one...a lot of people haven't...this is definitely a difficult situation, and I do, of course, acknowledge that there could be facets of this story that would be quite complicating.

If reports are sketchy, I'll have to wait until I hear much more concrete evidence regarding this guy's mental condition. I would be interested to find out just how deep it would have to run for a guy who isn't even under arrest to jump a detective, take his gun, and kill the guy. I do, however, readily admit skepticism when it comes to almost any defense that says "he didn't know what he was doing". Until this is proven, I can't react to this crime any differently than any crime committed by somebody who has never had any mental problems. Never have been a big fan of taking blame away from the criminal - its become far too easy and overused (which is part of my skepticism).

I don't know about the 50-60 foot fall the guy allegedly took. I do know that under extreme adrenaline, which I'd have to assume the guy had, if he didn't injure himself to the point of physical immobility, I don't doubt that he could have run. The story is so convoluted that I also don't know if he still had the gun or if he dropped it inside...I might've missed it.

As far as the brother/son reference...no, I'm not a parent. I'm a 20-year-old student, going to be 21 come June. So I guess you have a point, I can't tell from any parental experience, but I hope and pray that I'll be able to hold to the values my parents put in me and that I hope to have for my children - unconditional love, but teaching them, as I've been taught, that actions always carry consequences. I can also say that anger ("pissed", as I put it) is just one of many reactions I have at the same time - shock, fear, disappointment among them.

You're also right that I was probably a little quick labeling the murderer as "garbage" - situations like this rile me up a lot, and even more so when the main focus appears to be taken away from the heinous crime that was committed, to placing the blame on the deceased detective's colleagues for their "excessive brutality". Quite honestly, I'm shocked that I haven't heard Jesse Jackson or somebody like that coming out and ranting about it nationally yet.

My whole thought is that the criminal is still alive - a privilege he gets even after he took away another life. It just isn't fair - but then again, what in life is?

I'm sure you've seen this in my previous postings on this subject - but I never said the cops should be TOTALLY let off. If there is any real case to be made that they stepped too far out of line, they should be reprimanded in the lightest way possible. I've got to believe that, for an officer, the station is like an inner sanctum, one of the few places where they can honestly feel safe in one of the most dangerous professions imaginable. Such a violation, and the murder of a brother...their reactions are completely understandable, and the public safety hasn't been harmed at all.

I hope this was clear - I just checked up on this during a short break from some homework, which I should be getting back to now (American Government, wouldn't you know it...). Gotta get back to it now, this took a little longer than I planned. Should be back after my pooh-bah post (I really want to make it about poker... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])

PS. What is your experience? That is, if you don't mind elaborating. You could always PM me too if you don't feel like all of OOT knowing...

[Myrtle]

Edge...

TYMV (and I REALLY mean that!) for such a clear, thoughtful and honest response.

Because of it, I now have a much greater understanding surrounding where you're 'coming from', and to be totally honest, we do not differ much (if at all) on many of the points that you so clearly articulated.

It's funny that you asked about my experience surrounding this subject. FWIW, I have significant, personal, first-hand experience in dealing with this subject. I was actually considering posting it in the string, but as you said, I'm going to have to think about making some intensely personal experiences public.

Let me think about it overnight.........

Study well.....I'd say you're well on your way.....you show wisdom beyond your youth.

GL...and may you get pocket rockets when you most need them! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]