Disprove the Bible - Page 12

jakethebake · #**111** 03-13-2005, 01:42 PM

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Which would mean he also couldn't drop it on his toe.

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This would be wrong. God is all powerfull. He could make a rock so heavy that he can't lift it and then drop it on his toe.

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You've spent way too much time thinking about this.
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davelin · #**112** 03-13-2005, 02:23 PM

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Good question...I'll come back to it when I have time. The first thing I'll say here is that there is an eternal judgement for good and evil on this world but sometimes our problem is that we focus too much on the here and now. In other words we operate on a 100 hand scale which God declares to be too small.

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I look forward to hearing your response.

Just to clarify for those who don't know, the problem of evil is the following.

Axioms:

1. If God exists, he is omnipotent, omniscient and morally perfect.
2. Omnipotence implies the ability to destroy all evil
3. Omniscience implies the ability to be aware that evil exists.
4. Moral perfection implies the desire to eliminate evil.
5. Evil exists.

Arugment: Assume God exists. We know that evil exists. Then one of these possibilities must be true:

God can't eliminate all evil OR
God doesn't know that evil exists OR
God doesn't have the moral perfection necessary to want to eliminate evil.

Conclusion: God does not exist.

This comes first from David Hume: "Is He willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is impotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Whence then is evil?"

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Evil exists in the short term but God will ultimately judge and remove all evil from the world.

davelin · #**113** 03-13-2005, 02:25 PM

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That's the sad thing, that Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God but they all hate each other on a macro level.

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I agree.

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Completely disagree. That's like saying NL and Limit hold'em is the same game.

davelin · #**114** 03-13-2005, 02:26 PM

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I think most people who believe such things know that their belief is unscientific, but choose to believe based on faith. This is not an inherintly bad thing. (Not all correct beliefs are scientific.)

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Not completely true.

masse75 · #**115** 03-13-2005, 03:01 PM

Why are we wasting space on this?

davelin · #**116** 03-13-2005, 03:12 PM

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Why are we wasting space on this?

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Because to some people the question of the origin and purpose of life is pretty important. And it's more interesting than the 59 "Check our my stats" topics each day [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

jason_t · #**117** 03-13-2005, 03:17 PM

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1. God creasted everything and is all powerfull.
2. God, therefore, created logic.
3. God exists above and outside the bounds of logic.
4. Therefore, logical conclusions pretaining to God may be incorrect.

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Congratulations on making it impossible for any rational person to ever have a conversation with you about this subject.

davelin · #**118** 03-13-2005, 03:19 PM

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1. God creasted everything and is all powerfull.
2. God, therefore, created logic.
3. God exists above and outside the bounds of logic.
4. Therefore, logical conclusions pretaining to God may be incorrect.

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Congratulations on making it impossible for any rational person to ever have a conversation with you about this subject.

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Lol. In may be evident by my other posts but I believe it's 100% possible to have a rational and logical discussion about God.

jason_t · #**119** 03-13-2005, 03:25 PM

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Evil exists in the short term but God will ultimately judge and remove all evil from the world.

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You haven't refuted or accepted the arugment.

davelin · #**120** 03-13-2005, 03:53 PM

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Axioms:

1. If God exists, he is omnipotent, omniscient and morally perfect.
2. Omnipotence implies the ability to destroy all evil
3. Omniscience implies the ability to be aware that evil exists.
4. Moral perfection implies the desire to eliminate evil.
5. Evil exists.

Arugment: Assume God exists. We know that evil exists. Then one of these possibilities must be true:

God can't eliminate all evil OR
God doesn't know that evil exists OR
God doesn't have the moral perfection necessary to want to eliminate evil.

Conclusion: God does not exist.

This comes first from David Hume: "Is He willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is impotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Whence then is evil?"

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I agree with all of 1 through 5 but I don't agree that it necessitates that God get rid of all evil absolutely now. If you believe in heaven and hell then you believe in an eternal judgment time. We've all been dealt our hole cards and we've seen the flop and turn. But the final river card hasn't been dealt yet so we can't say that there is a supernatural misdeal going on.

All evil will be removed, the Bible teaches that this is true and that God is being patient for those to come to him. Evil exists in the short-term not because of lack of God's justice or desire of evil, but because of His mercy and love. Judgement/justice delayed isn't justice unfulfilled.