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#111
11-07-2004, 03:01 PM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
[ QUOTE ]
It takes nickel to manufacture steel, and nickel was around before man, therefore steel is a discovery. This is not true because the argument is not logical. Just because nickel is a component of steel and existed before man does not mean that anything that is made with nickel wasn't developed or invented by man. Reason is a component of logic. To reason is to use logic. That is the definition of the word. Your argument that it takes reasoning to manifest logic is circular. You cannot draw any conclusions from this. You are essentially saying that a=b=c, therefore c=z. This may or may not be true, but it doesn't follow logically from your argument. For more information on the history of logic, see this for a start: Quickly googled link There is obviously much more than this, but I'm multitabling right now, so I don't feel like digging out my textbooks. Hope this helps. Dov [/ QUOTE ] You're analogy with steel misunderstand my point which is not circular. The correct analogy is to say that the existence of steel means that nickel must exist. Similarly the existence of reasoning means that the components of reasoning (logic) must exist. I suspect we are mainly disagreeing about the meaning of the word 'exists' chez 
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#112
11-07-2004, 04:23 PM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
I don't quite follow your train of thought, but I think I'll steer clear of this alltogether
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#114
11-07-2004, 08:48 PM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
Count your fingers-unless you believe Man created his fingers how is it that clearly there are numbers 1-10 involved? Look at the 4 chambered heart or note the symmetry of your body in the vertical axis.
You are mistaking recognition for invention. It comes down to the consideration of how Man obtains Knowledge. This is concomitantly related to the consideration of Truth. In Thinking Man approaches the Truths of the world which are distinct from his egocentric being. Newton did not invent the movements in so far as he approached the truth but observed and quantified. This quantification can only go so far as there is a qualitative aspect to this knowledge. The technological inventions of Man are a bringing together of natures way which is the field of engineering. The explanations of the basic phenomonon is the work of the scientist which is based upon a linearity of thinking and is at root the reduction into absurdity. The continual finding of causal relations rooted in matter in a linear continium is the expression of this absurdity. The problem here is that the thinking is so abstract(and mistaken for reality) that it leaves the earth and does not approach the reality of the process of nature. Examples are the abstract "Theories of Evolution"(yes, there is evolution but not in the conventional scientific modernistic sense),"Big Bang", "Theory of Conservation of Matter and Energy", Atoms, Molecules, Quarks and all other frizzies in the edge of non reality. The question is: Is Truth the "Invention of Man". If it is, he is terribly isolated in the world but the artist sees the world and its beauty in another way in that it would be very difficult to state that a sunset of beauty, a surging river, an Autumn breeze belongs to him. He would not be so foolish as to say "this invention belongs to me". regards, carlo
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#115
11-08-2004, 09:09 AM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
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Actually the logical thing to do is plan the robbery at time when the homeowners are not home....Another logical thing is to not burgularize a home at all.... I can see you don't use logic to much in your thought process...You should try it. It really works. [/ QUOTE ] So I guess nobody was ever burglarized whilst they were at home then...I can see you don't use logic to much in your thought process...You should try it. It really works.
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#116
11-08-2004, 09:14 AM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
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[quote Hitler was a logician of the finest order. His logic shocked the world. [/ QUOTE ] Hitler was also a Christian....You really need to think more before you post. [/ QUOTE ] Why is everybody hung up with the Christianity thing? Yes, Hitler was nominally Christian and definitely vegetarian and possibly Jewish. You really need to think more before you post.
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#117
11-09-2004, 12:38 AM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
[ QUOTE ]
Count your fingers-unless you believe Man created his fingers how is it that clearly there are numbers 1-10 involved? Look at the 4 chambered heart or note the symmetry of your body in the vertical axis. [/ QUOTE ] What does any of this have to do with anything? How about counting in different base number systems. I suppose the person who INVENTED the base 16 counting system had 16 fingers, right? Look at the single chambered heart of the earthworm. What's your point?
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#118
11-09-2004, 12:40 AM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
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Newton did not invent the movements in so far as he approached the truth but observed and quantified. [/ QUOTE ] Why didn't anyone else successfully quantify these movements before Newton? Nobody noticed them? Newton INVENTED Calculus. That was the only way he could proceed.
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#119
11-09-2004, 12:44 AM
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Re: The Failure Of Logic
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The question is: Is Truth the "Invention of Man". [/ QUOTE ] This is not the question currently under discussion. The current question is: Do logical conclusions obviate moral conclusions? The answer is obviously no. The rest of this mess was in some people trying to minimize the usefullness of the logical process because some they didn't like the possible outcomes.
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Linear Mode
