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#111
11-17-2005, 02:51 PM
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Re: Evidence that God exists
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It's pretty much been "shown" that human beings are incapable of 900 year life spans. [/ QUOTE ] If you assume the past is exactly like the present you may have a case. A very large assumption. You also have to assume that God can't preserve human life for 900 years. Another very large assumption. Science is not above God. [/ QUOTE ] C'mon, NotReady... What kind of an argument is that? How can I possibly respond? You win! But why even bother to debate at all? Why not just use, "All things are possible with God", and leave it at that? Anytime someone has a question or points to a discrepency, just copy and paste, "All things are possible with God" and be done with it. It would certainly save you a lot of time. However, if you are inclined to discuss this intelligently... [ QUOTE ] If you assume the past is exactly like the present you may have a case. A very large assumption. [/ QUOTE ] A large assumption? What reason do you have to assume anything different? When it comes to human lifespans every bit of evidence points to humans living longer today than at any other point in history (for obvious reasons). Yet, you conclude it is a LARGE assumption that the human life expectancy is shorter today than it was 10,000 years ago? C'mon! 
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#112
11-17-2005, 03:07 PM
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Re: Evidence that God exists
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I've gone into great detail in other threads over the course of a year. How about, if God doesn't exist morality is an illusion and the universe has no purpose? [/ QUOTE ] We can start with those! The first statement is incorrect and the second statement is, on the surface, pointless. Why assume that purpose is necessary?
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#113
11-17-2005, 03:09 PM
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Re: Evidence that God exists
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A large assumption? What reason do you have to assume anything different? When it comes to human lifespans every bit of evidence points to humans living longer today than at any other point in history (for obvious reasons). Yet, you conclude it is a LARGE assumption that the human life expectancy is shorter today than it was 10,000 years ago? [/ QUOTE ] 10,000 years? c'mon! Of Pandas and People says the earth isn't that old. It also says we were created in our present form, so why don't we all live to be 900? Sorry, had to throw that in there- this discussion doesn't really involve ID, except it makes me wonder. In the grand scheme of Christianity, why are there SO many different interpretations and SO many different sects under one God? Which ones are right and which ones aren't?
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#114
11-17-2005, 03:21 PM
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Re: Evidence that God exists
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Anytime someone has a question or points to a discrepency, just copy and paste, "All things are possible with God" [/ QUOTE ] I don't see what's unusual about saying that the God Who turned water into wine, made blind people see and lame people walk, raised the dead and fed 5000 people from a loaf of bread and a few fish can make people live 900 years. [ QUOTE ] What reason do you have to assume anything different? [/ QUOTE ] The Bible says that death came into the universe because of sin. That logically implies that if Adam had not sinned humans would not die. Not live 900 years, live forever. It's no stretch to believe the penalties of sin, which include death itself, had a cumulative effect, so that the first few generations lived longer, but over time our life span was reduced to a puny 120 years as the approximate maximum.
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#115
11-17-2005, 03:24 PM
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Re: Evidence that God exists
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Why assume that purpose is necessary? [/ QUOTE ] I don't as a postulate of unaided human reason. Most people believe it, and those who say they don't live as if they do. When people insist they don't believe in an ultimate purpose I try to show the logical consequences. That isn't proof that purpose exists. It clarifies the absurdity of believing otherwise.
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#116
11-17-2005, 03:40 PM
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Re: Evidence that God exists
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I don't as a postulate of unaided human reason. Most people believe it, and those who say they don't live as if they do. When people insist they don't believe in an ultimate purpose I try to show the logical consequences. That isn't proof that purpose exists. It clarifies the absurdity of believing otherwise. [/ QUOTE ] Purpose in human life and purpose for the whole Universe are two different ideas. It's not absurd at all to believe that there is no "reason" behind existence itself. Now, back to morality being an illusion...
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#117
11-17-2005, 03:48 PM
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Re: Evidence that God exists
<font color="blue">I don't see what's unusual about saying that the God Who turned water into wine, made blind people see and lame people walk, raised the dead and fed 5000 people from a loaf of bread and a few fish can make people live 900 years. </font>
Of course, I'm going to request evidence that water was ever turned into wine, etc., and you're going to say it's in the bible and so on it goes. In a strange way, I actually admire that you're ok with such circular reasoning. You must have very strong convictions at the core of your beliefs. I just cannot do this. There is no way I can get past a second unproved thing, serving as proof for the first unproved thing, or any prior unproved thing. To me, it just defies any rational logic. If scientists used this type of logic mankind would have achieved almost NOTHING! We'd still be trying to figure out the wheel or how to keep warm, etc. In fact, I wonder if we'd have even survived at all! For what it's worth, I do see how belief played an important evolutionary role in our development. Without the ability to form (even unfounded), beliefs we would not have survived either. But logical conjecture is also important and I fail to see how it relates to much of what is in the bible. Either way, I am happy for you that you are ok with your beliefs. I just don't understand the logic behind them and doubt I ever will.
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#119
11-17-2005, 04:01 PM
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Re: Evidence that God exists
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If scientists used this type of logic mankind would have achieved almost NOTHING! [/ QUOTE ] You haven't followed my debate with jthegreat on Hume? [ QUOTE ] I just don't understand the logic behind them and doubt I ever will. [/ QUOTE ] The logic is obvious. It's the premise that causes difficulty. But you are fooling yourself if you think you don't reason in a circle about ultimate issues.
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