Sig Sauer P226 9mm

[Peter666]

I have not been in a firefight myself, but I have extensively trained and trained others, and I know several people who have been in a real gunbattle.

"Your body will react the way it has been trained to react"

This is not true. When taken by surprise, the body will do some very strange things. If allowed to prepare, THEN you will do what you have been trained to do. But I have seen guys who have trained extensively in certain techniques who froze or did something incredibly stupid once put under pressure.

A little example to illustrate my point: there was an instructor who trained with Remington shotguns and literally performed the safety discharge thousands of times. However, when he had to pull out his Remington in an altercation one day, a technique he practiced tons of times, he was looking for the thumb safety as found on Mossberg shotguns. He owned one Mossberg but only used it rarely for hunting on occasion. So basically, you don't know exactly what will happen. The focus must be on mental toughness, power of will to stay alive, and stress induced training. Not repetetive technique training. After-all, that's why a wrestler or a boxer can kick the butt of any black belt Karate ching chong whatever in a fight. They are mentally trained to win! Karate man can perform his Kata 10,000 times, but these techniques are almost useless on the street where everything goes into FLOW mode.

You will not be thinking about the fine points of the Improved Weaver, Weaver or Isosceles when called into action. You will be in whatever position you were caught in at the moment and firing away.

[Peter666]

Your tactics are fine, but the racking shotgun can be an advantage by scaring off the intruder without resulting in a fight. I see no real disadvantage, unless you are doing covert activity and don't want the enemy to know that you are there to kill them.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
"Your body will react the way it has been trained to react"

This is not true. When taken by surprise, the body will do some very strange things. If allowed to prepare, THEN you will do what you have been trained to do. But I have seen guys who have trained extensively in certain techniques who froze or did something incredibly stupid once put under pressure.

A little example to illustrate my point: there was an instructor who trained with Remington shotguns and literally performed the safety discharge thousands of times. However, when he had to pull out his Remington in an altercation one day, a technique he practiced tons of times, he was looking for the thumb safety as found on Mossberg shotguns. He owned one Mossberg but only used it rarely for hunting on occasion. So basically, you don't know exactly what will happen. The focus must be on mental toughness, power of will to stay alive, and stress induced training. Not repetetive technique training. After-all, that's why a wrestler or a boxer can kick the butt of any black belt Karate ching chong whatever in a fight. They are mentally trained to win! Karate man can perform his Kata 10,000 times, but these techniques are almost useless on the street where everything goes into FLOW mode.

You will not be thinking about the fine points of the Improved Weaver, Weaver or Isosceles when called into action. You will be in whatever position you were caught in at the moment and firing away.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with most of what you say here. You're not talking about training. You're talking about learning. You can know something and not perform the action correctly under pressure. If you've truly trained to do it, then you'll do it right.

The mistake you're making with regards to kata is a common one. People don't understand the purpose of kata. The purpose is not just to learn a series of moves. The purpose is to achieve the state of mushin. If you can train yourself to enter this state (and kata is a way of doing this), then you will perform correctly. In this we agree. The mental state is important, and the physical training is only useless if you don't react mentally. But you won't react w/o the training as well because you won't know how to.

In other words, the training is what allows you to react rather than think. If you're stopping to think in a gunfight your [censored].

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
In other words, the training is what allows you to react rather than think. If you're stopping to think in a gunfight your [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

It’s called muscle memory.

BTW – A quick call to an Ophthalmologist friend confirms that eye dominance is “hard wired”. You can learn to compensate, but you can’t force one eye dominant over the other.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]

But if you are shooting in a self defence situation, this is not even a consideration because your body will naturally react in the best way it thinks possible. I doubt many "weaver" or "isosceles" shooters have undergone much stress induced training.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your body does not react the way it thinks is best, it reacts as best it can. As your heart rate increases, you lose complex and then fine motor skills. The greater the stress, the less able you are to react as you trained.

Weaver uses more fine motor skills. These skills disappear under stress. Training does not help maintain these skills. Isosceles uses more gross motor skills, but these also deteriorate under stress. Again, no training can overcome the loss of complex and fine motor skills under stress. You can only train to rely solely on the most basic gross motor skills.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In other words, the training is what allows you to react rather than think. If you're stopping to think in a gunfight your [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

It’s called muscle memory.

BTW – A quick call to an Ophthalmologist friend confirms that eye dominance is “hard wired”. You can learn to compensate, but you can’t force one eye dominant over the other.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not just muscle memory. It's much more than that. It's the mind's ability to take that muscle memory and adapt it.

[Peter666]

Quit pushin your mushin. Actually, I agree, this is the state you want to be in. The weakness of the Oriental Martial arts is that they achieve this route through constant repetetive motion. It takes years and years to get to the point where you can be really good. The Philipino martial arts are much better in that you learn a few techniques and get into the flow aspect right away. And the Russian martial arts are best of all. You start with "mushin" and build technique after that.

A drunk guy in a bar often exhibits "mushin" by having no self consciousness about performing certain actions, although his body is not in the state to do anything about it.

The SAS have it right: He who dares, wins.

And to the Opthamologist guy, we may be hard wired in the beginning, but the eye, like any other thing with muscles, has the ability to be shaped and adapted. There is a book by Alduous Huxley called the "Art of Seeing" which should be read. I am near-sighted, and there are times when focusing a certain way, sometimes by accident, allows me to see clearly into the distance. By exercising this ability, I should restore my sight.

But the dominance thing I did right away, because I like to shoot! For target shooting it is much easier to train your eye then your hands.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
It takes years and years to get to the point where you can be really good.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. It only takes years because people don't understand the goal. The majority of the instructors in this country, regardless of style, are a bunch of Rex Kwon Do wannabes.

[ QUOTE ]
A drunk guy in a bar often exhibits "mushin" by having no self consciousness about performing certain actions, although his body is not in the state to do anything about it.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you believe this, you don't understand the concept.

[ QUOTE ]
For target shooting it is much easier to train your eye then your hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
For target shooting why bother? Just close one eye.

Where can I get a revolver that I can "fan"? Or how do I make one?

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]

Or just don't store it in that stupid plastic box. I store my Glock loaded with a round in the pipe.

I do use one of these though. If I need to fire, it just pops right out.



[/ QUOTE ]

Holy cow, don't you have young kids? Don't be a lazy worthless [censored] and get a real lock box.