ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
Now who could possibly dodge those kind of bullets?

[/ QUOTE ]

Neo.

*sniff sniff*

I smell troll. They don't make people this stupid anymore.

[Two_Slick]

I'm hoping not to be repetitive and attempting to add some perspective to this mess of a thread. A few things to ponder:

1) Too many of these discussions are very non-specific. They would be much more interesting if people didn't make blanket statements. I'd much rather here someone say "Low limit hold'em at site XXXX I consistently have noticed this." Allowing others to respond. Saying all online poker is rigged would be like saying everything that is round is a cake. Until you get specific there is no way of telling what actually is and what isn't.

2) It is plausible that some some sites would try to make more money if they were sure they wouldn't be caught. However, many of the ways which are suggested are absurd. I'm not saying it's impossible, but as a senior software developer/designer, attempting to write a program that, over a large number of hands, is consistent with probabilities and odds for all players and somehow builds in a house advantage would be a large undertaking to put it mildly. Imagine trying to build this "rigged" software that gives everyone an even distribution of cards over the long haul, but still cheats. It's not very likely.

3) In defense of those claiming it is rigged I will say this:

a) Perhaps people who claim the site isn't rigged can't post 1000's of hands played with analysis because if they played this much they'd probably lose their shirt. Maybe they are fish... who's to say. I definitely wouldn't continue playing on a site that I thought was rigged, so I wouldn't be able to post a lengthy history over many hands. Hand histories I've seen by pros who do have thousands of hands analyzed make a very compelling argument that these sites are in fact not rigged (the one posted earlier in this chain was excellent).

b) From personal experience I have seen a lot more bad beats in NL tournies (I've only played on PP) than on a limit table. I'm not sure if that's the case, or if it's just more noticeable when someone gets knocked out of a tourney. Either way, any site would definitely benefit by speeding up tournies with horrendous bad beats so there may be something to this.

c) I too have experienced a rush of winning $900 upswing when coming back to PP 2 months ago, followed by a -140 BB downswing (-$1400). Thinking that the site is rigged sure would make me feel much better, but the truth is probably that I am running pretty bad and that there are leaks in my game. It would feel great if the site were rigged because then I'm neither unlucky or a bad player... some times the truth hurts. That being said, it does stand to reason that initial winning streaks would help keep people playing longer. A number of times I have noticed new players at single-table NL tournies that play terribly and get off to amazing starts. Just last night noticed a player @ $10/1 NL tourney calling down every hand who was 88.8% in the money over his first 9 tournies. He was also dealt AA 3 times that I saw.

My 2 cents:

Before posting, I would consider what you hope to accomplish? If you want to feel better about losing, posting something like online poker is 100% rigged probably won't help. If you truly want to have a discussion about this, post something meaningful and be very specific. If you want to talk about how you feel then post on the Psychology thread (that's what I did [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ).

[King_Striker]

[King_Striker]

[Two_Slick]

You sound like your on tilt [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[kasey2004]

Online poker is rigged !!!

[kasey2004]

whoops changed link

Proof !!

[ianlippert]

[ QUOTE ]
What's a $3 rake or $3.30 rake per hand compared to your entire $500 bankroll?

[/ QUOTE ]

well lets do the math. Its 5:00pm right now and here are how the tables break down at party


Level, #of tables, Avg Pot size, .01%rake/hand(all tables)
.5/1 200 6BB $12
1/2 200 6BB $24
2/4 100 6BB $24
3/6 60 6BB $21.6
5/10 120 5BB $60
10/20 60 5BB $60
15/30 30 5BB $54
20/40 20 5BB $40
30/60 30 5BB $90

Total amount of rake taken per hand: $385.6
Assuming an average of 60 hands/hr we get a total rake of $23136, and thats just the limit tables!

Let me repeat this for you because it makes me sick how much legitimate money these sites are raking in.

If party poker were to increase their rake by one-tenth of one-percent they would make an additional $23K/hr!!!

Multiply that by 500 (to get the 5% rake) and we figure that the party poker limit tables are raking in $11M/hr. Shills are never going to come close to making this, and to rig the deck in such a way as for it not to be noticable would never be able to come close to this amount of money.

If party wants to rig their site for more $$$ their best course of action is to raise the rake. So please take your BS conspiracy theories elsewhere.

[Al Schoonmaker]

You asked: "Do you know anyone that makes a constent living off online?"

Of course, I do, and there are a LOT of them. In fact, on the psychology forum we have a very long thread about college kids' turning pro. I am against their dropping out of college, but the fact that some of them are reporting HUGE incomes from online poker clearly indicates that SOME people are beating online poker.

You stated: "I think one knows when he plays poorly." NO, NO, NO. The tendency to overestimate one's own skill is so pronounced that David mentioned it on the very first page of "The Theory of Poker."

Part Two of my next book focuses on this tendency and it quotes several other poker authorities such as Roy Cooke, Ed Miller, and Mason.

In fact, Roy argues that MOST people overestimate their own skills. You can read my article on that subject at cardplayer.com.

If someone loses consistently at poker (either B&M or online), there is only one plausible cause: He does not play well enough to beat his competition. The conspiracy theories are just ego-defending nonsense.

I must state that the OP sent me a PM insisting that he had been cheated. The ONLY evidence he offered is that he had lost playing against John Juanda, one of the world's best players. I have repeatedly asked for evidence, and I have seen none.

I am sure that there is some cheating online, but the claim that it is rigged 100% is too childish to take seriously.

He and man others simply cannot accept the truth: They don't play well enough to beat their opposition. Until you learn to evaluate yourself and your opposition objectively, you have almost no chance to win at poker.

Regards,

Al

[King_Striker]