3/6 6m quick little preflop thingy

[Catt]

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Wow, I thought I was the only person who was a fan of the origami hat line.

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I have no idea where it comes from, honestly -- I'm pretty sure I saw it originally from you (and so maybe it's yours - did you recommend it in MH thread?). But since, with the exception of "freakshow" I didn't have a good NPA refrain, I went with it. But that's why I can't do two shows a night anymore - just no good original material.

[DMBFan23]

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you've continued to take shots at me and ignore my advice. i'm trying my best here to be nice but when you say things like that i make posts "without thinking" you are just being an ass.

you raise preflop because you have an equity edge and raising makes this easier to play postflop. everything points to the fact that you have the best hand. you can ignore it if you want but limping here is bad poker and you will be stuck at low limits if you play passive, weak poker.

btw, if you are going to make posts where you don't want any advice (i guess you are trying to teach us?) and shoot down anything that people say don't bother posting.

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You're not giving advice. You're making naked statements without elaborating. You're dropping key words and phrases but giving no evidence that those are the right ones to be dropping here. You say absolute statements like "you need to raise because you have the best hand" with no support or "the range you are giving him is wrong" without elaborating on a range yourself. If you can't give reasons behind your ideas it's likely because you haven't thought them out carefully enough. This isn't a shot at you, it's a statement I am confident in making after years of experience in teaching mathematics. When my students drop absolute statements without reasons behind their ideas and I ask them for elaboration and they can't I would say 90% of the time it's because they don't understand what they just said. I'm responding to your posts trying to get you to elaborate. I welcome your contribution, but not your style.

So far all you've given me is the naked statements without support that I don't want. You say things like "you have an equity edge" but don't elaborate. You gave no indication that you absorbed the reads I provided and the implication that those reads could have on what the correct decision is. Do you understand the TT example in SSHE? Do you realize that Hero passes up an equity edge by not raising to exploit one later in the hand? Do you understand that idea could be applied in other spots? Do you realize that I don't have any fold equity postflop? I won't be able to represent an A e.g. Have you read HPFAP? Do you remember that Sklansky and Malmuth discuss offsuit broadway holdings in large multiway pots? HPFAP is more than just a guide of how to play Texas Hold'em; it's a guide to teach us how to think about the game. Their content on preflop play is amazingingly insightful; they explain there are situations in which they would not limp KT etc. otb but that they would in fact fold! Other posters far better than us have already indicated that they think it's a close decision. Isn't that enough to make you think this situation is far more complex than you're making it out to be?

If you want to make this personal, that's fine. If you want to think that what I'm doing is trying to teach people things, you're stupid and you don't pay enough attention to my nature at all. I'm a learner first and a pretty humble one at that. I came to HUSH a few weeks ago looking for help. I've received encouragement from dozens of posters that I shouldn't be playing 2/4 and 3/6 full anymore. So I came here and I contribute what I can hoping others can help me when I have questions. I had a question here, and it's not an easy one. It's especially not an easy one for me to ask because the obvious reply to me when I post a thread like this is "Raise you effing nit." Just by asking it I'm putting myself in a position to be embarassed which should be a clear indication my intentions were inquisitive and not expository.

This is a situation I don't understand; I want to because close preflop decisions arise pretty frequently. By thinking through one carefully that I didn't have enough time to at the table this morning, I'll be better equipped in the future. I indicated in the OP I was looking for more than have-equity-edge-must-push-by-raising type posts. Is that too much to ask?

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this post sums up why you are the muthafuckin man and why I have baron on ignore. [censored] one sentence posts, they don't help anyone and all it makes ppl do is seem elitist, like someone is stupid because they haven't considered something that it only took you one sentence to explain. your considerations in this post are fantasitc, regardless of what the right answer turns out to be. keep on keepin on.

EDIT: entity said a lot of the same things too and is also the man. dids is also right.

P.S. I usually raise, but I like the discussion we're having.

[BottlesOf]

I'd raise this most of the time. I think raise is better tham limping, although I don't think limping is bad. I don't think it's super close, but I also don't think it's such an "easy raise." All the reasons I'd put forth to back my feelings have been already said by better players.

I also would like to say I like seeing some lengthy preflop debate. We all know postflop is more important, but I think we often swing too far away in that the board shuns preflop discussion.

[me454555]

Why would you take 22-44 out of his hand range? If he has the same reads on the opponents as you do he may open limp w/them for set value.

[James282]

Long thread for a question with such an easy answer. Raise it up. You probably have at least one of those chumps dominated.
-James

[baronzeus]

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this post sums up why you are the muthafuckin man and why I have baron on ignore.

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This post made me chuckle a little bit.


Do I even know you? I don't think I deserve the hate, but maybe I do.


How's that for two one liners?

[DMBFan23]

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3. if you would spend more time actually listening to people who are better than you and less time trying to convince them that they are wrong, you would be a lot better off. (and im not talking about myself here when i say "people who are better than you")

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this is a bad attitude IMO. if you're civil about it, and are constructive, then 'arguing' is a great way to force yourself to really think through your own arguments, and present them as clearly as possible, and then you really have to see what the other person responds with because he might teach you something, and you'll be glad you questioned. conversely, it might cause the responder to question some things, and get him to think about it a different way and maybe confirm he's right or realize it's gray. either way everyone wins. if you just take people's word as gospel, you're not going to learn *why* you were wrong and you aren't really going to learn poker at any level other than some very basic "if A, then B" level. if we can't exchange ideas and question people, then this forum is really useless. This is where I really feel the one word answers are killing us, whether or not this rant belongs in this thread is up to someone else to decide, but the symptoms exist either way and it blows.

[Clarkmeister]

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Don't just say "raise" because that's what you've garnered from the tight/aggressive/never-be-weak mantra. Thinking players should be elaborative.

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I'm saying raise because that's the play. I'm too lazy to elaborate, but man, this isn't that tough IMO. UTG's got to be tighter than you suggest to be too concerned here. There are players I'd fold against, but this isn't one of those rare spots. He raises tons of those hands that he plays, which means he's got jank right now.

[Clarkmeister]

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Folding is the worst option

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[NLSoldier]

Dammit Clark, if you were gonna post something in HUSH for the first time in as long as I can remember, why did it have to be in this worthless thread!