It baffles me that so many Amercians support Bush - Page 11

ThaSaltCracka · #**101** 10-13-2004, 01:30 PM

I think there are some good points in your post, but I have a simple question though. How successful do you think some of these democractic coups would have been without the implicit support of the U.S. military and its allies?

I really like this concept of "people power" and I think it is a valuable "weapon" when it comes to regime change, but I don't think the people could do it without the help of foreign countries who support and promote democracy around the world, and by support I mean militarily.

TorontoCFE · #**102** 10-13-2004, 02:13 PM

Perspective - most people prefer their country to another.

I don't like the generality that ALL Canadians think that way.

I'd love someone to point out a country that it can be agreed upon that doesn't have serious issues.

ThaSaltCracka · #**103** 10-13-2004, 02:15 PM

You may be the wisest Canadian I have ever met.

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I'd love someone to point out a country that it can be agreed upon that doesn't have serious issues.

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This reminds me of Jesus, "Those who have not sinned shall cast the first stone."

John Feeney · #**104** 10-13-2004, 11:11 PM

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How successful do you think some of these democractic coups would have been without the implicit support of the U.S. military and its allies?

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Well, I'm not well enough versed in the histories of the movements cited to know the relative degrees to which such implicit support played a role in one or another. It certainly must play a role some of the time. But it would be tough to assess its impact unless we could compare the results of movements against totalitarian regimes which went unsupported by outside countries, with those that had such support.

I want to emphasize, though, that the non-violent successes we've seen to date surely reflect a low level of evolution for such movements. Compared to military budgets, there has been so little invested in the development of non-military solutions to conflict, that we must assume we've seen only the smallest hint of what such methods might be be able to accomplish.

Cyrus · #**105** 10-14-2004, 02:34 AM

"When the Bush administration decided to go into Iraq I was struck by their failure to consider such points. I would add the question of whether extensive efforts at non-military solutions had been clearly and totally exhausted. They hadn't."

Listen. When we need logic and sobriety in the discussion of politics we'll make sure to give ya a call.

Now, split!

Cyrus · #**106** 10-14-2004, 02:36 AM

I guess the State Department was asleep at the wheel, at the time. Typical.

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Chris Alger · #**107** 10-14-2004, 03:20 AM

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How successful do you think some of these democractic coups would have been without the implicit support of the U.S. military and its allies?

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That's rather mean, don't you think, given that some of the countries on the list include the Philippines, Indonesia, S. Korea and, good grief, Chile (one could also add Brazil and Argentina)? In these cases, the bad guys either came into power or maintained it, or both, with U.S. support. To attribute the success of democratic reformists to U.S. "help" doesn't jibe our record of helping their opponents.

Neither the U.S. military nor its' "allies" played any significant role in fomenting or supporting the popular rebellions in Eastern Europe. If anything, they tended to make reformers nervous about the possibility of U.S. intervention.

John Feeney · #**108** 10-14-2004, 01:53 PM

In the midst of debate <font color="red">fever</font>, I just had to try give the neocons a little dusting down. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

jakethebake · #**109** 10-14-2004, 01:59 PM

I don't know how many of us "support" Bush. It's probably just a case of the lesser of two evils since on the other side we have Kerry/Edwards that lean waaaaay over to the left.

wacki · #**110** 10-14-2004, 02:11 PM

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I don't know how many of us "support" Bush. It's probably just a case of the lesser of two evils since on the other side we have Kerry/Edwards that lean waaaaay over to the left.

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Agreed. People are scarred of Bush, well I am scared of Kerry. Just look at his record on civil rights. It's hard to predict what he will do with foreign politics, but I don't like the fact that he puts so much emphasis on the corrupt UN.

"It baffles me that so many Amercians support Bush"?

Well, it baffles me that so many amercians support Kerry. Read civilizations and it's enemies by Lee Harris to understand more concepts of why I think this.