State of the Forum

[BWebb]

Jason, it's funny because I had not seen this post before I met you in Vegas. You asked where I posted on the forum and my response was "I used to post in SS, but it has fallen to [censored]." Your post sums up the way I felt and feel. I hope people take it to heart. This post should be pinned.

[JTG51]

The biggest problem with the forum is, and always has been, a lack of participation by posters in their own threads. I've replied to about a dozen hands in the last few days. The original poster has not made a second post in the thread in many of them.

Posting a hand, reading the responses, then posting another hand isn't the way to get better. Post a hand then debate the ideas that people reply with. If you don't agree, challenge them to back up their statements. If you don't understand, ask them to clarify.

Also, I find it really annoying when I take the time to reply to a hand and the original poster never comes back to the thread. I'm much less likely to reply to future threads by that person if they don't participate in their own hand discussions. Many of you probably don't care if I reply to your threads, but I'm sure I'm not alone in that feeling.

[BatsShadow]

Hey Guys,

I don't even play or post in SS yet, this thread was linked over in micros, but I have an idea for you.

If you want to increase content, do like GrunchCan did and emphasize that replies add much more to the forums than new posts. If the weak players take time to respond to posts and think through situations rather than just posting question after question, the discussions will start to get more interesting. GrunchCan actually suggested that people make a rule for themselves that they will reply to three posts before posting one. This is more a suggestion to newbies than vets, but have the newbies responding to posts. Even if they post things that are wrong, people can take the time to show them why they are wrong leading to discussion and more content. I don't know where the original Grunch post is, but I'm sure someone will post a link here.

Also, someone kind of hinted at a FAQ detailing standard hands and standard lines. I think it would benefit the forums as a whole if someone made detailed documentation on standard lines, and possibly started a collection of different groups of similar hands with explanations for why certain plays are standard and the best. That would allow you all to direct people to the FAQ section when they post a boring standard hand instead of just ignoring them or complaining.

[KDawgCometh]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Guys,

I don't even play or post in SS yet, this thread was linked over in micros, but I have an idea for you.

If you want to increase content, do like GrunchCan did and emphasize that replies add much more to the forums than new posts. If the weak players take time to respond to posts and think through situations rather than just posting question after question, the discussions will start to get more interesting. GrunchCan actually suggested that people make a rule for themselves that they will reply to three posts before posting one. This is more a suggestion to newbies than vets, but have the newbies responding to posts. Even if they post things that are wrong, people can take the time to show them why they are wrong leading to discussion and more content. I don't know where the original Grunch post is, but I'm sure someone will post a link here.

Also, someone kind of hinted at a FAQ detailing standard hands and standard lines. I think it would benefit the forums as a whole if someone made detailed documentation on standard lines, and possibly started a collection of different groups of similar hands with explanations for why certain plays are standard and the best. That would allow you all to direct people to the FAQ section when they post a boring standard hand instead of just ignoring them or complaining.

[/ QUOTE ]


this has already happened in here, grunch got the idea from Clarkmeister posting a thread of almost the same wording around the same time back in feb.

actually, I don't have the clark thread on hand, but if anyone does have it in their fav. links area, it really wouldn't be a bad idea to bring it back up again(for anyone who has it, Keith begs for someone to bump it).

[thirddan]

Jeez Louise

[bolgenmod]

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest problem with the forum is, and always has been, a lack of participation by posters in their own threads. I've replied to about a dozen hands in the last few days. The original poster has not made a second post in the thread in many of them.

Posting a hand, reading the responses, then posting another hand isn't the way to get better. Post a hand then debate the ideas that people reply with. If you don't agree, challenge them to back up their statements. If you don't understand, ask them to clarify.

Also, I find it really annoying when I take the time to reply to a hand and the original poster never comes back to the thread. I'm much less likely to reply to future threads by that person if they don't participate in their own hand discussions. Many of you probably don't care if I reply to your threads, but I'm sure I'm not alone in that feeling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I've posted one hand in my almost 2 years at 2+2 (I too lurked for a long time before posting, and as you can see from my low post count, still lurk more than I post!) because if I have a questionable hand, I always seem to find similiar hands being posted. (Also, I play B&M and home games and thus see LOTS fewer hands than most!)

But I have to add my 2cents and second what JTG51 said above. The hand I posted, I wanted answers about my play. So I posted preflop. Then replied with flop. Then turn. I never even posted the river because it wasn't interesting --I had a great draw, made my hand and a lot of bets on the end, lucky me! -- and the questions I had were about my play before the river (on the river it was obvious what to do: I had made the nut hand, so I got as many bets in as I could).

The point is that I learned more about my play by posting the hand in parts rather than all at once. I don't know if this would be a viable strategy for many posters, but it's worth thinking about.

And I agree with JTG51: when people have taken the time to reply and give advice, the very least one could do is give a quick thanks. (I must apologize that never did because I didn't want to look like I was bumping a dead thread -- but if I ever post a hand again, I promise to say thank you!)

[JTG51]

[ QUOTE ]
And I agree with JTG51: when people have taken the time to reply and give advice, the very least one could do is give a quick thanks. (I must apologize that never did because I didn't want to look like I was bumping a dead thread -- but if I ever post a hand again, I promise to say thank you!)

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to clarify, I'm not looking for thanks. If everyone starts saying 'thank you' to every reply, the forum will be a disaster. I just want more thought and discussion in each thread.

[BottlesOf]

This is a very good and not often mentioned point.

[LinusKS]

Usually what kills forums is not new posters, but old ones who decide, among themselves, that they "own" the forum, and that only their ideas, and only the things that interest them have any value.

Two and three- word put-downs are not "valuable pedagological tools" - they're just signs of arrogance and laziness among people who think posting that way somehow enhances their stature.

If you're no longer interested in how to play AK when the flop misses you, then move along. Let those who are interested talk about it. You have no right to interfere.

And if you want to have your own forum, where you can keep out "undersirables," please go and do it.

Your "you don't know how to play poker go kill yourself" posts will not be missed.

[ QUOTE ]
SS sucks now

There. I said it. And I mean it. This forum used to be one of the best on this site. But this forum is in an awful state right now and it has been for about a month with the past two weeks being particularly god awful. A few weeks ago there were regular posts about how OOT had started sucking and it had and since those posts it has improved. Hopefully we can do something about this wonderful resource we have here in SS; losing it would be a tragedy.

There are too many news users. Whatever the reason, and I don't care what it is, lately we've been overwhelmed with an influx of new posters. They post too many hands. Most of the hands they post are standard. Or boring. Or low content. Or no content. We in SS should be past these types of hands. Those types of hands belong in Micro-Limit. We thrive off the interesting hands where we are calculating our equity or finding value bets and discussing theory and so on. The interesting hands involve marginal situations, not what to do when you flop quads. There is so much noise right now it's drowning out the quality hands and the quality posts.

There are too many good posters that have essentially left. For a variety of reasons, many of our best posters have stopped posting here. This is obviously killing us.

There is a horrible consequnce to the above two. They have led to many of our other good posters that are still around to decreasing the number of threads they get involved in. I used to read every hand posted in this forum. Now there are too many to do that. I used to read every post in SS by Evan, Johnny Boom Boom, sfer, StellarWind, sthief09 and others. This meant opening threads that I wouldn't normally open. Now that they aren't posting as much, I'm not opening many threads. I've talked with others. They say the same thing. I know some fantastic posters that don't even read the forum anymore; they only look for threads from people they know. This has caused the signal/noise ratio to take a turn for the worse. As that happens, the problem recurs and signal/noise ratio gets worse and on and on.

There are too many garbage posts. Whether it be a stats post, a "is Party 3/6 getting harder" post, a "I can't beat Party 2/4 or 3/6 at night" post. The correct reply to most of these threads is "you suck at poker. Kill yourself." The best reply is none. There are also too many bad beat posts and no content/low content posts. I don't care if you limp reraised with 67s and caught a flush draw fish. I don't care if he called down with Jack high. I don't care if he capped every street drawing almost dead. I don't care if he capped with the nut low. I don't care if he needed runner runner straight flush. No one else does. A lot of us are playing 20k hands a month. We've seen it all. In my opinion, the only acceptable low content posts are ones where somehow we're getting to know each other better; we work best with others after seeing their human side. Some posts belong in other forums like Psychology or the zoo. Even some veterans are making this mistake.

There is another thing that I'm guilty of and that many others are too. We're not elaborating our thoughts enough. We say "easiest value bet ever" or "clearest fold ever" or "standard" or "idiot" and don't say why. We should be. And we should especially not be making posts like this in a thread if we're the fifteenth person to do so. There's no point.

There might be a way to save the forum. I don't know what it is yet but I don't think the situation is hopeless yet. I have ideas. A FAQ will go a long way. I'll be sending some PMs later today with other thoughts. Maybe you'll share yours here. I hope you can help.

[/ QUOTE ]

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
Usually what kills forums is not new posters, but old ones who decide, among themselves, that they "own" the forum, and that only their ideas, and only the things that interest them have any value.

Two and three- word put-downs are not "valuable pedagological tools" - they're just signs of arrogance and laziness among people who think posting that way somehow enhances their stature.

If you're no longer interested in how to play AK when the flop misses you, then move along. Let those who are interested talk about it. You have no right to interfere.

And if you want to have your own forum, where you can keep out "undersirables," please go and do it.

Your "you don't know how to play poker go kill yourself" posts will not be missed.



[/ QUOTE ]

Not too much to argue with here. Right on the money.