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#91
03-30-2005, 12:15 PM
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Re: 2/4 Check-up Flopping the Nuts and not even considering FPS lines
[ QUOTE ]
my line is to fight for them after the flop instead of preflop. [/ QUOTE ] There aren't very many favorable flops for your hand so starting to fight pre-flop gives you a ton of leverage/fodling equity post-flop. Assume that the flop will miss your hand completely. How are you going to win this pot? If its by betting than the best thing to do is start immediately. 
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#92
03-30-2005, 12:15 PM
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Re: 2/4 Check-up Flopping the Nuts and not even considering FPS lines
I agree that aggression is necessary. My disagreement is whether you should be aggressive preflop with the small pair. I really think you guys sometimes don't read everything I'm saying. A couple times in this post I have gone into great detail about the pots I would go after postflop if I don't raise preflop with the small pair, yet we end up here with you guys just wanting to talk about how my lack of aggression will prevent success at 3/6 and beyond. I think perhaps you guys missed on that part.
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#93
03-30-2005, 12:19 PM
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Re: 2/4 Check-up Flopping the Nuts and not even considering FPS lines
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] my line is to fight for them after the flop instead of preflop. [/ QUOTE ] There aren't very many favorable flops for your hand so starting to fight pre-flop gives you a ton of leverage/fodling equity post-flop. Assume that the flop will miss your hand completely. How are you going to win this pot? If its by betting than the best thing to do is start immediately. [/ QUOTE ] Eeek, looks like 3 points. There are a ton of favorable flops to a hand like 77 vs one limper. Almost all flops are favorable imo. Anything ragged in any way is very favorable (K83 and the like, this constitutes a huge majority of the flops) As far as the flop missing my hand completely, since I'm starting with 77 here I'm assuming automatically that the flop will miss me completely, I don't see that as a problem and it doesn't deter me from firing out. I do plan to win the pot by betting, I'm not sure starting the betting immediately makes it easier for your opponent to fold when he misses the flop. That is what you're implying but you're just making a bigger pot right?
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#94
03-30-2005, 12:19 PM
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Re: 2/4 Check-up Flopping the Nuts and not even considering FPS lines
No, I am reading what you're saying. But you have to understand that I don't think you want to see the turn with a pair of sevens here. End it quickly and if you can't you're likley beat so get the hell out of dodge.
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#95
03-30-2005, 12:21 PM
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Re: 2/4 Check-up Flopping the Nuts and not even considering FPS lines
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No, I am reading what you're saying. But you have to understand that I don't think you want to see the turn with a pair of sevens here. End it quickly and if you can't you're likley beat so get the hell out of dodge. [/ QUOTE ] See this is where I get confused about whether or not you are reading what I'm writing. I completely agree that we do not want to see the turn. I don't think either line is more likely to see the turn than the other.
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#96
03-30-2005, 12:25 PM
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Re: 2/4 Check-up Flopping the Nuts and not even considering FPS lines
By betting you're not bloating the pot. Its not as if you have 4 guys who now have to call a raise where they already called one bet. You're buying a little leverage, thats all. When your hand is vulnerable but often best in a HU pot you've just got to bet.
You should play the 6 max tables. It'll do wonders for your game...
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#97
03-30-2005, 12:27 PM
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Re: 2/4 Check-up Flopping the Nuts and not even considering FPS lines
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No, I am reading what you're saying. But you have to understand that I don't think you want to see the turn with a pair of sevens here. End it quickly and if you can't you're likley beat so get the hell out of dodge. [/ QUOTE ] See this is where I get confused about whether or not you are reading what I'm writing. I completely agree that we do not want to see the turn. I don't think either line is more likely to see the turn than the other. [/ QUOTE ] You don't think the limper is more likely to fold against a BB who raised prelfop and bet the flop than one who didn't raise preflop? I think you've argued yourself into a corner here....
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#98
03-30-2005, 12:27 PM
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Re: 2/4 Check-up Flopping the Nuts and not even considering FPS lines
Perhaps it can even be stated another way. Both of us agree that we want to bet the flop and get him to fold. So on most flops we are both betting. On your flops the pot is bigger and we have invested more preflop. On my flops its smaller and we have invested less preflop. Do you think these factors change whether or not he calls the flop bet? I'd say clearly if he's paired he's calling in either case. I think that if he flops a gutshot draw he is more likely to call the flop in your case than in mine. We don't want him to call the flop because then our small pair looks like crap and we can't keep up the aggression because we pretty much have to assume we're behind. So it's better for us when he folds. Even when he does call on a gutshot draw however he is making the bigger mistake vs me than you because the pot is smaller and thus not padding his odds as well. On top of that when he calls with the gutshot and we give up, and check fold the turn, I have made less mistake because I am folding the best hand in a smaller pot than you are.
I'm not trying to throw reasons out just to argue, are these not valid points? Does the hand typically play out differently when you raise preflop out of the BB that makes it very favorable for you?
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#99
03-30-2005, 12:29 PM
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Re: 2/4 Check-up Flopping the Nuts and not even considering FPS lines
[ QUOTE ]
You don't think the limper is more likely to fold against a BB who raised prelfop and bet the flop than one who didn't raise preflop? I think you've argued yourself into a corner here.... [/ QUOTE ] I am saying that I don't think it's a very big difference at all, you are 100% correct there. I think the limper is more likely to call with any sort of draw when you raise, which negates any benefit that showing strength has.
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#100
03-30-2005, 12:31 PM
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Re: 2/4 Check-up Flopping the Nuts and not even considering FPS lines
[ QUOTE ]
You should play the 6 max tables. It'll do wonders for your game... [/ QUOTE ] See it is when you people say things like this that I get most annoyed. You are implying that I can't or haven't done something that I have, and you have no way of knowing that but make the assumption anyway. Would it matter if I told you that I easily beat the 5/10 6 max?
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