Am I Going to Burn in Hell?

[magiluke]

It's my belief that religion is there the more you believe in it. If you aren't religious, then you aren't going to hell. The more religious you are, the more God is there for you, or not there for you, whatever the case may be. Popular Western religion has one god, but depending on your religion, you could go to Hades, Limbo, Valhalla, or just be reincarnated as a cockroach, or, if your life was good enough, you could finally escape the infinite loop of reincarnation. When you die, I believe that your spirit goes where it thinks, or even wants to go, whether or not that place may actually exist for others, or at all; if you even have a spirit at all. Pretty much, if you think you are going to hell when you die, then that will probably influance where you may or may not go in the afterlife.
I hope that my stance makes sense, because it certainly is difficult to explain.

[Wahoo91]

The one problem with the Bible is that it was written by man. Man is very susceptible to misinterpretation and worse, corruption to suit his own ideals (e.g. DS Moses/Prisoner's dilemma idea).

There is significant evidence that the Bible was manipulated by the early Catholic church to maintain power and wealth.

That being said, it is the best documentation we have regarding God. I sometimes just wish we could tell which parts are manipulation and which parts are *real* (if any).

[Sundevils21]

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The one problem with the Bible is that it was written by man. Man is very susceptible to misinterpretation and worse, corruption to suit his own ideals (e.g. DS Moses/Prisoner's dilemma idea).


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Timothy 3:16 NIV

All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness,


Basically, the Bible says that all scripture is inspired by God. And that those who wrote it were guided by God so that he could make sure they got it right.
Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible- Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. Moses wrote those books while wandering in the desert for 40 years. The problem with him writing Genisis is, how did he know? He couldn't have been born. So did he just make it up? or was he inspired by God? Well, if you believe the Bible then you believe that God inspired all of the writers. If you don't believe that God inspired the writers, then you really can't take the Bible seriously. How could you take Moses writing Genesis seriously? It's kind of an all or nothing type of thing.
In the book of revelation, John wrote of the danger of adding or subtracting to the Bible*. But are you really going to believe a guy over 90 who was givin a "vision(or revelation)" while imprisioned on an island? I guess it depends on whether or not you believe, "All scripture is God-breathed...".


*My knowledge of history is to say the least, lacking. I know that the 66books that are in the(Christian) Bible(aka, the canon) were not the originals. Some were added and some subtracted. Something about the Council of Trent? I don't remember very well. I just trust that God wouldn't screw up such a big thing, such as his word. Basically the only thing, like you said, that we have to go off of.

[Sundevils21]

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The correct answer is that nobody knows. Not the Pope, not your friendly neighborhood atheist, not David Skalansky.


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You are correct. I highly doubt that everyone will EVER agree on such things. No matter how much science "proves" or how much "prophecy is fulfilled". But would that be any fun if we could prove it? Naw, that's why faith is so important if you believe in God(faith instead of facts). I think that everyone should agree with the first three sentances of this post.

[chezlaw]

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However I think the sentence "Existence is the seperation of being and object" and the idea that the self "is a relation which relates itself to itself". Are extremely influential in the shaping of my own life/world view. This is primarily due to how these concepts contributes to existential thought.


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I read this last night just before I went to bed. Today I have a headache. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Hopefully I'll get to read Kierkegaard someday (fear and trembling sounds fun) but he is on a long list, maybe when I retire.

chez

[chezlaw]

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What I don't think makes any sense is for an alternative Christian view to be:
-Jesus died for my sins
-even if somebody doesn't accept Christ, yet leads an exemplary life, that person will be in heaven(regardless of specifically choosing Christ)
-even though the Bible(which the person believes) says that I need to confess to God I'm a sinner and repent. I think I'll skip that part and just lead a good life.

If you are a Christian and you decide to live the life that you believe you must in order to get to heaven, why not say that prayer?(even if you think that one might not *have to* in order to go to heaven)

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I agree that makes no sense, men can be silly though and eternal damnation seems a bit harsh.

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Well yes, there are. It's reasonable for a Christian to have the veiwpoint of:
-Jesus died for my sins
-even if somebody doesn't accept Christ, yet leads an exemplary life, that person will be in heaven(regardless of specifically choosing Christ)

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This does seem a reasonable view for a christian as it avoids the unjust damnation of a good man. I was, perhaps mistakenly, under the impression that you thought this reasonable view was plain wrong

chez

[Wahoo91]

All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness

I would say that all scripture is man's interpretation of God's will, and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness in that respect.

Basically, the Bible says that all scripture is inspired by God. And that those who wrote it were guided by God so that he could make sure they got it right.

This is what the Bible says, but the Bible was written by man (and was written by man in a language other than English, so there are many translation problems). Those who wrote the Bible *state* they were inspired by God, there is a big difference then *were* inspired by God.

What about all the scripture that was written but was not included in the Bible? Those gospels were inspired by God as well, but were left out of the official Bible through the choices of man.

BTW, I do believe God exists, but I do believe that the Bible is not without its flaws and inaccuracies. However, I do think *its the best we got* so we have to make do with it. I do think there is some room for individual interpretation of what is accurate and inaccurate within the Bible and still be a Christian and a believer in God.

[Sundevils21]

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All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness

I would say that all scripture is man's interpretation of God's will, and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness in that respect.

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I would say that if you believe what that verse said, then believing the Bible is no problem.
If you think that you need to tweak it around, then of course you will try and change around verses throughout the Bible, cutting and pasting as you go.
I don't think God would let something so important to believing in him, get screwed up. I think he made sure we got this one right.
(how do I think he did it? I have no clue)

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Basically, the Bible says that all scripture is inspired by God. And that those who wrote it were guided by God so that he could make sure they got it right.

This is what the Bible says, but the Bible was written by man

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But God was inspiring those who wrote it.
Do you believe the book of Genesis? Moses wrote it, even though he wasn't even alive when he recoreded those events.
Do you believe the book of Revelation? It was written by a man over 90 who was in prison on an island. And have you read Revelation? Dragons, beasts with 10 horns and 7 heads. If you don't believe he was inspired, then wouldn't you say he was just a nut who was going crazy in prison?

[Wahoo91]

While I belive in God I do not believe that he ensured that man documented everything exactly right in the Bible. In fact, I believe that there are probably many errors of fact within the Bible that do not diminish my belief in God.

[kalooki45]

I'm a Christian, and that statement makes me a little nauseous, too.
It's a combination of truth and error, a concept known in the Christian community as "cheap grace".

MATTHEW 7:21 (caps mine)
"Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven."

But there is hope also:
MATTHEW 7:7
"ASK and it will be given to you; SEEK and you will find; KNOCK and the door will be opened to you. For EVERYONE who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door WILL be opened.
"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!
So in everything, DO TO OTHERS WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO TO YOU, FOR THIS SUMS UP THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS."

MATTHEW 5:17
"Do not think I have come to abolish the Law and the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them, but to FULFILL THEM."
(Jesus the Messiah was indeed the fulfillment of the entire Old Testament. He fulfills all the predictions, the prophecies, and the Convenant. He also takes the LAW onto His Own shoulders, and bears the terrible price for redeeming the fallen.)

I think that in order to get the right perspective on Sin, we must look at the nature of God. God has revealed much of His nature in the Bible. He has also revealed OUR nature..more depressing.

1. All men are sinners, and "the wages of sin is death".
--->Why? Because God is a mean old man with a beard whose hobby is giving boils to Job?
God is pure holiness, pure righteousness, omnipotent, almighty, eternal,and NOT HUMAN. Does it ever occur to anyone that God, in His natural form, has certain qualities that simply PREVENT impurity from surviving in His presence? (Remember what happened to the man who accidentally touched the Ark of the Covenant?) That God is simply "telling it like it is"?

Remember how He made Moses hide his face? Remember the personal desolation and devastation Isaiah felt after he caught just a GLIMPSE of God in a vision?
Does it occur to anyone that God's actual presence would overwhelm a human psyche to the breaking point? The human's fragile sense of self would be ANNIHILATED.
There would be no more "free will".

For His own good reasons, God wanted His creatures to be free--to love Him or hate Him, to choose good or evil, to obey or disobey BECAUSE THEY LOVED AND TRUSTED HIM ABOVE THEIR OWN WILL.
(If you can't understand why He wanted us to be free--imagine the difference between having a wife and a blow-up doll.)
God WANTS a RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU, which He can't have unless you are free to disallow it.

But how does fallen man enter into a relationship with the Most High? After all, if our ideas about His nature are correct, we'd probably be incinerated!
Evidently, we need a bridge. We need a force field of righteousness in order to stand in God's presence. Well, we HAVE no righteousness. "All our righteousness is as filthy rags".

But there was ONE who WAS righteous. Jesus, the Messiah. The plan of salvation is this: If you REPENT (def. to "purpose in your HEART to turn away from) your sin, if you'd TRUST GOD to run your life via His rules, rather than continue to be part of the ongoing process of evil in the World, then the Blood of the Lamb of God will protect you--just as it saved the firstborn of Israel during Passover. (Jesus was crucified during Passover--NOT a coincidence).

The righteousness of the Son of Man will be imputed to you--you can be "washed white as snow" and stand in God's presence on HIS merit, NOT your own--or you can stand on your own record on Judgment Day.
Why would you want to trade records? Only if you BELIEVE HE WAS THE SON OF GOD, AND THAT HE CAN DO THIS FOR YOU.

John 3:16 (words of Jesus)
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to SAVE the world through Him. Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does NOT believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

Notice what Jesus says there--God LOVED YOU!! Imagine your beloved child has committed a murder and stands condemned..rather than see him put to death, you might say to the Judge--take ME instead! I'll go in his place! THIS IS WHAT GOD DID FOR YOU IN THE PERSON OF JESUS CHRIST. WHY? BECAUSE HE LOVED YOU!

None of us can ever say to God--"You don't know what it's like! You never felt pain, or hunger. YOU never had to work hard every day...YOU never knew...
because His answer will be: "Yes, I DO know."
"I was there with you. I sweated, and was tired and hungry, I swatted flies and stubbed my toes.... and I was put to death in the most violent and painful way they could devise."

What does it mean "to believe"?
Another time.... [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]