Hamas founder killed

[nicky g]

I agree with you that a bomb that killed ten innocent people should be regarded as more "provocative" than the assassination of a senior political/military/terrorist figure. But in practice it isn't, for the simple reason that figureheads are known and followed by thousands and ahve large scale followings, while ordinary people tend to be forgotten very quickly. If a nation's secret services planted a bomb in the US that killed a dozen people or asassinated George Bush, which do you think would be regarded as more "provocative"? If Hamas killed Sharon it would escalate the conflict far more than another bus bombing, and this will sadly escalate the conflict far more than the murder of hundreds of innocent Palestinian civilians by the IDF has. The entire world media has reported this as a significant escalation, not just Menzies Campbell.

I don't understand what you think this accomplishes. Will it prevent any more bombings? Do you think a 70- year-old paraplegic was intimately involved in the planning and carrying out of attacks or had anything useful to contribute to them? Yassin's rhetoric may have been deplorable but the bombers don't need his go-ahead to carry out attacks, as we'll no doubt see in the near future. Should other religious/political leaders that condone terrorist tactics be assassinated? What of the numerous right-wing rabbis in Israel who condone or even praise Baruch Goldstein's acts? What makes them any different from Yassin?

You joke about Sharon trembling in his boots at the thought of more suicide bombers, but Sharon ins't going to be affected by them, and it will be no laughing matter for the dozens that will no doubt die in the aftermath of this. You are kidding yourself if youbelieve that the number of attacks can't increase, or that this can't radicalise people further or recruit more bombers, or that this won't push back a negotiated settlement. Someone else will replace Yassin, a lot more people will die, and nothing will have been accomplished except Sharon getting a hard-on from directing another pointless killing.

[Gamblor]

the murder of hundreds of innocent Palestinian civilians by the IDF has.

The word "murder" implies that the soldiers were given orders and their overall strategy is to kill Arabs. This, as we all know, is little more than a lie.

The entire world media has reported this as a significant escalation, not just Menzies Campbell.

The "entire world" also believed the earth was flat.

Will it prevent any more bombings?

In the long run, yes.

Do you think a 70- year-old paraplegic was intimately involved in the planning and carrying out of attacks or had anything useful to contribute to them?

Yassin has been confined to a wheelchair since he was 12 years old. He managed to stay healthily involved for the 60 years he was confined to it.

Should other religious/political leaders that condone terrorist tactics be assassinated?

Only if they begin to pay for the dynamite, counsel the terrorists, and organize groups of terrorists to carry out these acts, as Yassin did.

What of the numerous right-wing rabbis in Israel who condone or even praise Baruch Goldstein's acts? What makes them any different from Yassin?

Numerous? How many? 1? 2? And they didn't hand him the gun, as Yassin did. Nor do they actively recruit other Baruch Goldsteins to carry out further activities. Even the most right wing Rabbis now (and I'm thinking of Ovadia Yosef) are demanding peace in the spirit of Pikuach Nefesh (preservation of the soul), as no piece of land is worth human lives, Arab or Israeli.

[nicky g]

"Only if they begin to pay for the dynamite, counsel the terrorists, and organize groups of terrorists to carry out these acts, as Yassin did. "

Someone else will do exactly the same thing now Yassin is dead. And dozens of people will die. When are you going to get it through your head that if Israel hasn't managed to achieve a military solution to the problem of 50 years, despite overwheliming miltary superiority int he region, it never is?

[Gamblor]

When are you going to get it through your head that if Israel hasn't managed to achieve a military solution to the problem of 50 years, despite overwheliming miltary superiority int he region, it never is?

That is a fair question I don't have an answer.

But that doesn't make the Israeli religious elite nor the Israeli army anything close, on a moral scale, to a single member of the Hamas, as you tried to assert via your questions.

[nicky g]

That is not in general what I mant to imply; my post was about practicalities rather than morality. I don't believe such assassinations improve the situation for anyone. To say that not a single Israeli soldier can be as bad as a single Hamas member however is absurd. You can't seriously believe that every civilian death at the hands of the IDF in the territories has been some sort of tragic accident. Murder is murder, whoever does it.

[Gamblor]

You can't seriously believe that every civilian death at the hands of the IDF in the territories has been some sort of tragic accident.

Avoidable accident, I'll give you. But not a single Israeli puts on his flak jacket and announces "I'm gonna bag me an Arab!"

Whether enough care is taken to avoid civilian death is at best debatable, but the orders are always designed to minimize casualties. No other democracy on earth has come even close to Israel's track record in the face of a an enemy nested among civilians.

[ComedyLimp]

"International support is hardly at the top of Israel's agenda, nor should it be"

I suppose there's a pragmatic approach which says as long as Israel gets approval and support from the US then the rest of them hardly matter but its not wise in the long run.

Remeber that Israel's friends and allies -- such as the UK -- criticise Israeli actions and policies not out of some squeamish Liberal consiousness but our of a genuine belief based on out own experience that its does Israel more harm than good.

A wise man listens to his friends (at least some of the time).

"I think as Islamic fundamentalist terrorism increases, international support will increase"

The contrary appears may well be true. If your foreign policy increases the amount of terrorists and therefore terrorism your allies keep pointing this out then if they become victims as well if anything they are likely to put more pressure on you to engage in the process in the way they think (whether rightly or wrongly) you can best solve the problem and ensure your security.

"The rule has always been that peace would be achieved on the negotiating table. But no negotiations under fire"

That was the British governments position for 30 years and got us nowhere. We didn't make progress until we started negotiating with Sinn Fein whilst the IRA continued its campaign. It's just something you have to accept if you want the bombing to stop.

[MMMMMM]

Nicky, I agree that killing the terrorist "spiritual leader" of Hamas may well engender more violence. However, killing the terrorist "spiritual leader" of al-Qaeda may engender more violence as well.

Avoiding outrage is not, IMO, the primary consideration in either of these cases, although of course in the case of bin-Laden the situation is even more outlandish.