Which street is worst?

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
for you guys who say river is good: you agree that the river is good only because I bet the turn, right? Im assuming you would hate a river bet after a turn check?

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. The river is good cuz you bet the turn, but the turn bet may not be so hot.

[/ QUOTE ]

what exactly is the problem with the turn bet? when they check to me, Im pretty certain neitehr have a pair. so basically Im betting to charge the lone clubs and set up my river bluff at the same time. do you guys really think they are gonna pay off both streets with ace high no club?

[Lmn55d]

[ QUOTE ]
so basically Im betting to charge the lone clubs

[/ QUOTE ]

You're charging the lone clubs with queen high?

[ QUOTE ]
set up my river bluff

[/ QUOTE ]

When you bet the turn the pot is 4.75 BB. If we assume between 1 and 2 opponents will call the turn, you will risk 2BB (turn + river) to win either 5.75 BB or 6.75 BB (average of 6.25BB). This is about 3:1.

Sometimes these guys will hit their draws or, since they act first, can bluff before you can. Also it is possible that one does, in fact, hold a small pair (couldn't MP have 44 or 55?). And if one holds the ace of clubs you will often be called on the river. On top of that, you will sometimes be checkraised on the turn which won't allow you to complete your 2 barrel bluff and sometimes this causes you to forfeit some equity in the pot (if you have outs). The whole 2bet parlay just doesn't work enough. When you are on the river , however, the pot is pretty large since you bet the turn and your opponents river action (and the river card) give you information to make a +EV river bet.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
for you guys who say river is good: you agree that the river is good only because I bet the turn, right? Im assuming you would hate a river bet after a turn check?

[/ QUOTE ]


Right. The river is good cuz you bet the turn, but the turn bet may not be so hot.

[/ QUOTE ]

what exactly is the problem with the turn bet? when they check to me, Im pretty certain neitehr have a pair. so basically Im betting to charge the lone clubs and set up my river bluff at the same time. do you guys really think they are gonna pay off both streets with ace high no club?

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW I voted flop, and preflop ran a close 2nd. The river is obviously perfect (but only because you bet the turn) and I think the turn was fine. Probably riskier at 20/40, because I'd be more likely to expect a checkraise semibluff, but certainly at 10/20 and below I often bet here to charge people for a draw, so that I can win it with a bet on the river if a blank falls. In other words, whether your thinking is flawed or not . . . it's exactly mine as well [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img].

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
for you guys who say river is good: you agree that the river is good only because I bet the turn, right? Im assuming you would hate a river bet after a turn check?

[/ QUOTE ]

i like the river bc the pot is big and your only chance of winning is to bet.

[baronzeus]

Why does everyone think preflop is bad? He raised in CO, hero 3bet on the button. It's fine. KJ is an auto3bet, so QJo can't be that bad.

[Victor]

i just read this post again. i would definitely bet the flop. you will likely get enough folds for the pot size.

[Lmn55d]

I also would bet the flop since it is paired. If it were not I would usually check. I think this is a good spot to use the fold equity you pick up from 3betting to either take it on the flop or the turn or see a free river.

[baronzeus]

I can't believe 37% of people voted preflop. That is just absurd.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't believe 37% of people voted preflop. That is just absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

holy [censored]. i never looked at the pole. i guess i gotta vote too.
im gonna vote flop now that i thought about it.

[MAxx]

I voted turn. However, I was thinking the flop at first. Little light pf, but whateva... nothin bad there. Based on your line, river is aproaching auto.