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#1
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Re: Civil War arguments
I didn't say that people want force used on them, but that people will use force against others out of necessity. I would contend that human nature is the same as every other animal and plant in the world. The most important thing to something that is living, is to preserve itself. Look at the animals in the wild, they kill each other constantly because they feel that it would be better for them. I look out my window, and I see ducks that live in a large group, fight all the time because of food and sex.
I agree that it is in our interests to not kill each other, but without anything to prevent us, we will. You say that the majority will punish the minority that uses force, but they will do so by using force. It is an endless cycle that I do not think will stop without any agreement. An agreement to not use force, and punish those that do, is government. I think we're going off-topic here, so lets get back to the Civil War [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] |
#2
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Re: Civil War arguments
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't say that people want force used on them, but that people will use force against others out of necessity. I would contend that human nature is the same as every other animal and plant in the world. The most important thing to something that is living, is to preserve itself. Look at the animals in the wild, they kill each other constantly because they feel that it would be better for them. I look out my window, and I see ducks that live in a large group, fight all the time because of food and sex. I agree that it is in our interests to not kill each other, but without anything to prevent us, we will. You say that the majority will punish the minority that uses force, but they will do so by using force. [/ QUOTE ] What you fail to note is the difference between *initiation* of the use of force and the use of force *in response* to force. [ QUOTE ] An agreement to not use force, and punish those that do, is government. [/ QUOTE ] No. Government *REQUIRES* the use of (unprovoked) force. |
#3
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Re: Civil War arguments
[ QUOTE ]
No. Government *REQUIRES* the use of (unprovoked) force. [/ QUOTE ] Why do governments require the use of force? My definition of government comes straight from Hobbes and Locke. Are you trying to say that a government is only a government when there is killing? How about if there was a government, but there was not taxation and no war; would that NOT be a government in your eyes? It seems to me that your bias against government is not letting you see what they actually are. |
#4
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Re: Civil War arguments
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No. Government *REQUIRES* the use of (unprovoked) force. [/ QUOTE ] Why do governments require the use of force? My definition of government comes straight from Hobbes and Locke. Are you trying to say that a government is only a government when there is killing? How about if there was a government, but there was not taxation and no war; would that NOT be a government in your eyes? It seems to me that your bias against government is not letting you see what they actually are. [/ QUOTE ] Without taxes, the only way the government can support itself is through slave labor, which is force. |
#5
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Re: Civil War arguments
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No. Government *REQUIRES* the use of (unprovoked) force. [/ QUOTE ] Why do governments require the use of force? [/ QUOTE ] How are you planning on paying for it? How are you planning on implementing any government decisions? [ QUOTE ] My definition of government comes straight from Hobbes and Locke. Are you trying to say that a government is only a government when there is killing? [/ QUOTE ] Killing isn't the only form of force. |
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