This Ought To Get Some Replies

[RJT]

When phil153 was OOO with the umlats, I thought he had some good posts. I can’t figure out what happened when he devolved into phil153. Witness the following statements of his:

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I question whether he (Jesus) ever existed. I know that sounds insane in a culture built on the certainty that he did (and Christmas movies presented as fact), but the more you actually look at what historians and Catholic apologists write about the issue, the more you realise the evidence is very scant. Without the bible, there would not be enough evidence for a historian to consider him a real historical character.

As the only evidence, the new testament comes under scrutiny. The first parts of what would become the New Testament were written around 40 years (the absolute minimum according to even religious scholars) after his death. Later parts were added up to 100 years after his death. In a time of myth and superstition, without widespread education/writing, TV, or reliable press, such a story could very well be a complete fabrication. Certainly there were excellent reasons for religious powers to write a story which combined the prominent pagan myths of the day (as the bible suspiciuosly does).

Anyway, the point is that even if he did exist, we can't reliably say anything at all about him or his life, as none other than the religious powers of the day wrote anything historical about him.

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David,

I had always suspected part of your motivation for posting some of the things you do had to do with your (probably, mostly tongue-in-cheek) comment that “…Since, in the long run, the busier these forums are, the more money I make…”.

I would suggest, though, that in the long run (even though, we are all dead) it might be better for you to keep some integrity to 2+2. While I understand that your motivation for posting this thread might also be attributable to not wanting thoughts like this to go unchallenged (irrelevant whether one concurs or not), I think it would be more valuable for 2+2 to not compromise its quality.

Perhaps, it is already too late. Once you made atheism all the rage there wasn’t much hope of maintaining control of the beast you created. (I am not talking about atheism, per se; just the brand we often see here on this forum. You must admit it is often not very flattering to itself.)

But, this is your domain. Who am I to suggest how you should guide it? I apologize for not responding to your OP directly. I just can’t bring myself to do it. As Lillian Hellman said, “ I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year’s fashion.”

RJT

[Jeff V]

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When phil153 was OOO with the umlats,

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Hmphh. I did not know this.

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Perhaps, it is already too late. Once you made atheism all the rage there wasn’t much hope of maintaining control of the beast you created. (I am not talking about atheism, per se; just the brand we often see here on this forum. You must admit it is often not very flattering to itself.)

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There is a RGPish feel here once in a while.

[RJT]

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When phil153 was OOO with the umlats,

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Hmphh. I did not know this.

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Yeah, I liked him when he was OOO.


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There is a RGPish feel here once in a while.

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Perhaps the cold weather here has my brain a bit frozen - RGP is what?

RJT

[Jeff V]

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RGP is what?


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Used to be a phenominal poker forum with the best players in the world posting, and analyzing hands. Unfortunately it degenerated into an ugly arguing rumor mill, and the great posters left.

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I can’t figure out what happened when he devolved into phil153. Witness the following statements of his: "I question whether he (Jesus) ever existed."

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I know it's shocking. It was to me when I first started investigating it. So tell me (in the other thread if you prefer)

1. Who wrote the books of Mark, John, Epistles, etc? (Hint: It wasn't his apostles - lol)
2. What independent historical evidence of Jesus is there?
3. Why did no contemporary Jewish or Roman historian mention Jesus (there a quite few surviving histories from that time)?

Christian scholars themselves can answer these questions for you. Until you can answer them, it might be better to avoid deriding my posts.

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I think it would be more valuable for 2+2 to not compromise its quality.

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2+2 is about high quality POKER and gambling information. This forum is in the other topics section.

[RJT]

There are different theories on who wrote each Gospel and in what order they were “written”. They were not written by men named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. In fact, they all probably have co-writers so to speak. One "author" of Matthew and Luke is commonly known as Q; but isn’t even a person at all. Q is rather a source “quelle”.

[Lestat]

Just curious who YOU believe wrote the gospels. Isn't this incredibly important? You are putting a major amount of your faith and very being into all of this stuff.

Not knowing who wrote the gospels in addition to the wacky stories that fly in the face of reality, are big reasons why I'm an atheist. Perhaps if I knew and trusted those who wrote the gospels, I could overlook some of the tales that defy all reason. Nah... I probably still couldn't overlook it. But I would at least make more of an effort to understand Christian beliefs.

[Jeff V]

"Perhaps if I knew and trusted those who wrote the gospels, I could overlook some of the tales that defy all reason. Nah"

So why answer your question? Just to here you say nah?
Nah.

[Lestat]

I want to know how Christians (or any other denomination for that matter), "trust" their beliefs. Especially since there are many more reasons to disbelieve, than to trust.

I said that if I could trust the source, I'd have to at least try and make an effort to understand. I'm being honest in saying that I'm probably incapable of coming to grips with how people lived to be 900 years old, or how someone can rise from the dead, and I know you hold that against me. Yet you somehow HAVE come to grips with believing in these very far-fetched stories. So I'm asking who you believe wrote them and where does your trust in these people come from? What makes you give these writings merit and credibility? I think that's an important question.

[Rduke55]

I thought we were talking about race and the brain?
Can we let a couple of threads go without the same religion argument?