Played craps with TJ Cloutier

[Josh W]

On the come out roll, the player (for that roll alone!) is an 8:4 favorite (8 ways to win, 4 to lose).

Now, the player is a big favorite (when betting the pass line) on the come out roll. This means that they MUST be a big dog on the following rolls (after the point is established).

So, if a player wants to bet on the pass line AFTER the come out roll, the house will GLADLY take their action. It's a fairly stupid (i.e. drunk) maneuver, but definitely allowed.

Next time you play blackjack and get dealt a blackjack, and the dealer shows a 6, ask the dealer/pitboss if you can take even money. I bet they let you.

Josh

In a decent place, they will treat it as a place bet.
They will represent this by sliding the bet back until it is on the back boundry of the pass line.

The pass line is a contract bet, so once you put $ down - it has to stay. You can add to it. This is usually done when you want more odds. The reverse is true of the don't pass line, you can pull money off at any time - however, you cannot put the money back once the original has been pulled off.

The reasoning is this; On the come-out roll, money on the pass line is a favorite over money on the don't pass line. Once a point is established, money on the pass line is the underdog vs. money on the don't pass line. The 7 will come out more frequently than any other number. So they want money on the pass line at all times.

As far as walking up to a table in the middle of the roll, you can place the point using the pass line. The money is offset, using the line nearest you. However, you could just put money on the pass line - but that makes no sense. Suppose you walk up to a $10 table, and the point is 9. You put $20 on the pass line. If the 9 is hit, you win even money. However, if you place it using the pass line - you will receive $28 or $29 (depending on the casino).

As a side-note, when I was in Tunica for the WPO - I saw for the first time, a crapless crap game. 2, 3, 11 and 12 COULD be your point. It was quite disgusting if you ask me, I saw noone hit a 2, 3, 11, or 12 once they established it!

[drewjustdrew]

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As a side-note, when I was in Tunica for the WPO - I saw for the first time, a crapless crap game. 2, 3, 11 and 12 COULD be your point. It was quite disgusting if you ask me, I saw noone hit a 2, 3, 11, or 12 once they established it!


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This game has been around for over a decade at least. I played it at the Stratosphere in 1995.

I have seen those points made.

[mostsmooth]

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In a decent place, they will treat it as a place bet.
They will represent this by sliding the bet back until it is on the back boundry of the pass line.

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this sounds correct
once upon a time i was a craps dealer, but sadly i cant recall the rules on this. i recall that if somebody wanted to do this we would tell them it would be wise to make a place bet but i dont know if there was a "rule".in the end, i believe you cant walk up and make a pass line bet when theres already a point. if im correct, i think the reason for this is that depending on the allowable table odds, the house can get beat out of money when a player would take odds (examplelacing $100 5 pays $140, $10 pass line and $90 odds pays $145).
somebody tell me if this makes any sense

btw, rolling a 7 is never called "crapping out" as far as i know?

[drewjustdrew]

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In a decent place, they will treat it as a place bet.
They will represent this by sliding the bet back until it is on the back boundry of the pass line.

[/ QUOTE ]
this sounds correct
once upon a time i was a craps dealer , but sadly i cant recall the rules on this. i recall that if somebody wanted to do this we would tell them it would be wise to make a place bet but i dont know if there was a "rule".in the end, i believe you cant walk up and make a pass line bet when theres already a point. if im correct, i think the reason for this is that depending on the allowable table odds, the house can get beat out of money when a player would take odds (examplelacing $100 5 pays $140, $10 pass line and $90 odds pays $145).
somebody tell me if this makes any sense

btw, rolling a 7 is never called "crapping out" as far as i know?

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Please never apply for a job at my company.

[mostsmooth]

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In a decent place, they will treat it as a place bet.
They will represent this by sliding the bet back until it is on the back boundry of the pass line.

[/ QUOTE ]
this sounds correct
once upon a time i was a craps dealer , but sadly i cant recall the rules on this. i recall that if somebody wanted to do this we would tell them it would be wise to make a place bet but i dont know if there was a "rule".in the end, i believe you cant walk up and make a pass line bet when theres already a point. if im correct, i think the reason for this is that depending on the allowable table odds, the house can get beat out of money when a player would take odds (examplelacing $100 5 pays $140, $10 pass line and $90 odds pays $145).
somebody tell me if this makes any sense

btw, rolling a 7 is never called "crapping out" as far as i know?

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Please never apply for a job at my company.

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why? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[drewjustdrew]

You worked as a dealer and you don't understand the rules. I haven't played in years, but can still tell you that:

1. You can make a pass line bet at any time, but may not remove a pass line bet once the point is established.
2. The odds bet is always a neutral EV bet and the pass line is a -EV bet for the player once the point is established, and should therefore always be welcomed regardless of # of times odds allowed by the house. You are correct though that placing would be even more advantageous.

I take it back about working at my company though. We have plenty of people who do a good job, even though they don't understand the reasons behind their job functions.

I know, I'm being a smartass. No harm meant.

[mostsmooth]

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You worked as a dealer and you don't understand the rules. I haven't played in years, but can still tell you that:

1. You can make a pass line bet at any time, but may not remove a pass line bet once the point is established.
2. The odds bet is always a neutral EV bet and the pass line is a -EV bet for the player once the point is established, and should therefore always be welcomed regardless of # of times odds allowed by the house. You are correct though that placing would be even more advantageous.

I take it back about working at my company though. We have plenty of people who do a good job, even though they don't understand the reasons behind their job functions.

I know, I'm being a smartass. No harm meant.

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1. it was like 7 years ago and did it for 6 months on weekends, i cant be expectred to recall such obscurity.
2. did you even read what i explained above about the edge a player would have if they were allowed to make pass line bets after the come out? all the bets on the table are negative ev, except the odds. i dont think they are going to let you make a pass line bet just because its negative ev. why would they give you the chance to put a large portion of your money in play with neutral ev, when they can force you to put it all in play negatively?. is this some sort of magical loophole?

i dug up my dealer school's "craps dealer reference manual". under section "making and removing of wagers", it says "A wager made on any bet may be removed or reduced at any time prior to a roll that decides the outcome of such wager. A pass bet and a come bet shall not be wagered, increased, removed, or reduced, after a come-out point or come point is established with respect to such bet ", and it also says " A player cannot make a pass or dont pass bet after the point is established, but he/she could place the point, buy the point, or buy behind the point"

im gonna skim through a little more, but i think the above makes me not crazy. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
you guys hiring?

edit: i just found this on the net: No matter what stage the game is in, whether on the "Come Out" roll, or in progress, you can jump in immediately and place any bets. The only exception to this is the bet called the "Pass Line" bet with odds", which can be made only on the "Come Out" roll. You can, however, bet with the shooter even while the game is in progress by placing a "Pass Line" bet without odds. Placing your chips halfway over one of the two lines framing the "Pass Line" area does this.

if correct,this sort of ties together what everybody is saying, you can make pass line bets, but cant take odds. that would make sense from a casino point of view.