Why did Jesus have to die?

Hiya Zapp,

Doesn't help much with my sense of justice. I mean, we all are still paying for Adam & Eve transgression. Ah well. It is all in how we define justice I guess.


MidGe

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Hebrews 10:4 says that it was impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Therefore Jesus Christ, the Son of God came into the world to bear our sins.

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You forgot to mention the vampires. That's very important, as it shows why God first made the light when he re-created the world -- that was to kill the vampires.

KipBond, did Christians beat you up when you were a kid? Seriously, don't hold it against all of us just because you were routinely beaten up as a kid.

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Riddick, did Atheists beat you up when you were a kid? Seriously, don't hold it against all of us just because you were routinely beaten up as a kid.

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KipBond, did Christians beat you up when you were a kid? Seriously, don't hold it against all of us just because you were routinely beaten up as a kid.

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Yes, they treated me like the Jews treated Jesus. It was brutal. They said it was to please God... and who am I to argue with that logic. To this day, I still drink vinegar... it's horrible, but it reminds me of God's grace & mercy.

[hashi92]

but why does God ask for such sacrifices. it really is unecessary. the god of christians and catholics seems to be a very vindictive god. he demands extreme sacrifices even from his most devout followers. when people do not do his will he rains down fire onto them (sodom)or floods the earth. yet at the same time he demands us to be morale and law abiding. at times he can be very contradicting. sometimes he says and eye for and eye than he says to turn the other cheek or whoever has not sinned may cast the first stone. why cant this god demand people to be just and morale. why does he need the extreme sacrifice of anybody.

in your $10000 example people can make up for their sins by going to church and confessing. doing a zillion hail mary's and our fathers. why cant that be enough. its the same as someone admitting they stole $10000 dollars and paying restitution in the form of prison time or monetary reimbursment. you say god cannot pardon sin without payment. why is this so. when someone does you wrong you have to choices to forgive or not to forgive. if someone doesnt accept that they did you wrong you probally wont forgive them. if they open up their heart and ask for forgiveness shouldnt that be all that is needed.

[MaxPowerPoker]

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but why does God ask for such sacrifices. it really is unecessary. the god of christians and catholics seems to be a very vindictive god. he demands extreme sacrifices even from his most devout followers. when people do not do his will he rains down fire onto them (sodom)or floods the earth. yet at the same time he demands us to be morale and law abiding. at times he can be very contradicting.

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You are pointing out consistency and not contradiction here. The fact that Sodom was destroyed was a display of God's judgement for sin. God was moral and just to destroy the wicked inhabitants of Sodom.

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sometimes he says and eye for and eye than he says to turn the other cheek or whoever has not sinned may cast the first stone. why cant this god demand people to be just and morale. why does he need the extreme sacrifice of anybody.

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Again, pardoning sin without payment may be merciful, but it is not moral and just. God is perfectly merciful while at the same time being perfectly moral and just which is why sin cannot go unpunished.

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in your $10000 example people can make up for their sins by going to church and confessing.

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No they can't! The only think that "makes up" for their sin is the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

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doing a zillion hail mary's and our fathers. why cant that be enough. its the same as someone admitting they stole $10000 dollars and paying restitution in the form of prison time or monetary reimbursment. you say god cannot pardon sin without payment. why is this so. when someone does you wrong you have to choices to forgive or not to forgive. if someone doesnt accept that they did you wrong you probally wont forgive them. if they open up their heart and ask for forgiveness shouldnt that be all that is needed.

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This is where your concept of forgiveness is at odds with God's. The wrath of God burns against sin. He detests it. This is a fact that cannot be denied. We all sin and therefore the wrath of God burns against us. At the same time he provided the perfect sacrifice for sin. This is an awesome act of love that instead of justly punishing us for our own sin (which he must do if he is righteous), he places the sins of all who have faith in Christ onto his own son and he bears our punishment and the righteousness of God is upheld.

Consider this from Romans:
through the law comes knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it--
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

-Zapp

[hmkpoker]

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Similarly, God cannot simply pardon sin without payment of the penalty.

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Yes, he can. God is all-powerful. Are you telling me that, even if he willed it, he couldn't remove the sin from a person and let them into heaven?

The notion of justice you propose is absurd. If I steal ten grand and get punished, should my great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchild also be punished for this deed?

[MaxPowerPoker]

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Similarly, God cannot simply pardon sin without payment of the penalty.

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Yes, he can.

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You contradict scripture:

(Mat 26:28) for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

(Eph 1:7) In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

(Heb 9:22) Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

[hmkpoker]

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You contradict scripture:

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Scripture contradicts itself.