Middle Set facing lots of aggression, huge 3 way pot

Soul Rebel · #1 12-15-2005, 03:33 PM

I dunno, this was a badly played hand, with position between a donk and a thinking player. Avoiding tough spots like this is obviously key in NL, but once you're there you have to deal with it. This also isn't Pacific, where someone will push with all kinds of garbage despite 2 reraises. Maybe it is a simpler situation than I originally thought though, I apologize if this a boring post.

Finite_Risk · #2 12-15-2005, 04:45 PM

Only Hellmuth could lay this down...

Betting the flop solidly might shake loose pocket pairs like 88 before they hit.

I doubt Big Stack limped with KK - many more people try to be tricky with AA, esp short handed.

Given how you played the hand, if I'm raising the turn, I'm sending the BB all in immediately.

I cant lay this down

swarm · #3 12-15-2005, 05:38 PM

What do you put the Big Stack on Joepa that he would raise all in on a turn with the following action

BB bet, UTG call, raise by bigstack, re-raise by BB, reraise by UTG...

It's got to be a set, it's either 3's, 8's or K's.

Finite_Risk · #4 12-15-2005, 06:17 PM

Shorthanded, a guy described as "a little loose preflop" might be played something suited like 86 or K8 and caught 2 pair

Or 33

Two questions back to you:

1. OP has shown he likes his hand some by raising turn - any chance the MP is just trying to bully out the OP by raising huge and play against a player that the OP described as horrible? I think this might widen his range here

2. Any chance MP is trying to be tricky with aces here? I don't see many people who arent complete rocks limping kings because they dont want to be out flopped by ace-crap.

Who knows, maybe he picked up an OESD on the turn and is making a play with outs?

Also, there are no reads given for pfr%...if he isn't totally rockish he's maybe raising 88 pf shorthanded.

I just think the way this hand played out hero is ahead of a lot of things I could rationalize - esp with a sheety player all-in and wanting to just play vs him.

Soul Rebel · #5 12-16-2005, 03:40 AM

For those who might be interested, I took all the time and ended up calling. He showed 88. I deserved it for butchering a straight forward hand. Thanks for the responses.

PoBoy321 · #6 12-16-2005, 05:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
For those who might be interested, I took all the time and ended up calling. He showed 88. I deserved it for butchering a straight forward hand. Thanks for the responses.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the other guy?

Soul Rebel · #7 12-16-2005, 02:34 PM

Oh yeah, sorry, the donk in the BB had K6.

Wayfare · #8 12-16-2005, 03:29 PM

Hey Soul,

If you are going to slowplay a set, you have to pay very much attention what card peels off on the turn before deciding to stick it in.

If the turn had been a 2,4,5 I would be all for gung ho getting it in -- he doesn't play KK like that preflop unless he is the biggest luckbox in the world. More likely would be that he just spiked a set and thinks he is good.

But look at the action on the flop -- check check check. Then look at the action on the turn when the 8 peels -- bet, call, raise, minraise -- HUGE PUSH. You played this street very sketchily because of the call/minraise. This is a tell-tale set. Most opponents won't sniff it out, but this guy apparently did. He knows you have a set and he wants to give you the minimum amount of info to think your way out of this tough spot, so he pushes.

My main point is that if you are going to elect to slowplay, think about what theoretical turn cards let him catch up and still be behind and what turn cards should give you pause.

In this case, with deep stacks and a lowish-set, a lot of turn cards could theoretically cost your stack. Even so, with this turn card and turn action, you have been told that your set is no good.

And also note that if you had potted the flop, the donk would have raised you big and the guy who spiked on the turn would have folded instantly. I'm sorry to point it out, but the one check on the flop created a catastrophe in this hand.

Soul Rebel · #9 12-16-2005, 04:44 PM

Thanks for the great response Wayfare, I think its very clear that I would have stacked the BB if I had potted the flop, instead I got stacked by the MP. I was very close to folding on the turn, for the reasons you said, it was one of those times where every feeling you have is telling you you're beat, but its not your A-game and you call anyway. The MP pushing to give me less information is not a play I had considered.