KJo- OOP

[toby]

Again converter is AWOL so bear with me.

Party Poker (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
very loose fishy MP1 limps, 45/18 CO raises, TAG button cold calls, sb folds, hero calls.

TAG button is aggressive postflop, esp on the flop and has 70% showdowns won after 300 hands.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>

Part 1) Hero is first to act. What is the action?

Part 2) I actually checked to see what would develop. MP1 checked, CO bet and Button called. What is my action now? Pot is $20 or $21.

I got confused when you said the CO coldcalls. Was there a raise preflop? I will assume there was not. Since the pot is only 4 small bets, you should bet since a bet will protect your hand from any gutshot/5 outer draw. I know the BTN is aggressive, and if the pot was bigger or it was 6 handed or more going for the checkraise would be the better play given your read. But in your situation in a 4sb pot with just 3 opponents, youll get more value out of a Bet/3Bet line than going for the checkraise.

[toby]

Sorry about that...laggy Co actually raised and button called. I hope the hand converter starts working again soon.

So the pot is about 8sb on the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry about that...laggy Co actually raised and button called. I hope the hand converter starts working again soon.

So the pot is about 8sb on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Given this new information I would check the flop with the intention of raising to pressure out the MP1 guy. Given the larger size of this pot, it is now more important that you play your hand in such a way that increases your probabity of winning this pot.

Notice I advocated the bet/3 bet line in the small pot since in that situation you gain more value from getting more money in the pot with the best hand than you do from check raising and increasing your odds of winning the small pot.

In this raised pot situation I believe a checkraise will increase your chances of winning this pot more than the betting out strategy becuz, if you bet out the MP1 guy will be getting 9-1 to call, which means he will be apt to call with all kinds of hands especially since he is a bad player, and if the CO for some reason decides not to raise, then the Tag will be getting good odds to call also. So by betting out there is a higher chance that all 3 opponents will see a turn card which is not good for your holding even though you probably have the best hand. If you go for the checkraise,assuming the CO will always bet, no matter what happens you will still have a good chance of pressuring the MP1 guy out of the hand, even many bad players wont call with their weak draws once its 2sb's in front of them.

[toby]

Thanks for the good advice here. I guess I should clarify the action even more though - on the flop i checked, fishy checked, Co bet and Button just called. If the button folded, a check/raise would be entirely standard.

The taggy button just calling in this decent-sized pot raised some warning flags in my mind. If i was him, I'd raise to thin the field vs the lag. Therefore when he merely called, I saw myself outkicked or drawing nearly dead to a set, and folded.

Terribly weak-tight? Or close?

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the good advice here. I guess I should clarify the action even more though - on the flop i checked, fishy checked, Co bet and Button just called. If the button folded, a check/raise would be entirely standard.

The taggy button just calling in this decent-sized pot raised some warning flags in my mind. If i was him, I'd raise to thin the field vs the lag. Therefore when he merely called, I saw myself outkicked or drawing nearly dead to a set, and folded.

Terribly weak-tight? Or close?

[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldnt call it Terribly weak-tight. I think the word terrible pretty much describes it. I am not trying to be mean here just constructive. You have top pair so youre not going any where. You probably have the MP1 beat cuz he'll limp with many holdings. The CO will autobet this flop whether he misses or not cuz thats what lags do so the odds that you have a better hand than the CO are significantly in your favor. Lastly, the Tag just called when the laggy CO bet. This is a great sign for you!! why you ask? becuz right away you should realize that the Tag doesnt have a hand like AJ since he wouldve raised the flop. The tag also cannot have two pair on this board since he is a tight player. Well its true that the Tag could be slowplaying a monster like a set of nines here but he mightve raised the flop with this hand also since the board is highly coordinated so he knows he's likely to get action. The most likely hand for a Tag player when he just calls this flop is some kind of drawing hand, it could be anything from two hearts, to a hand like AK,AQ,KQ. These holdings are much more likely than a flopped set. So bottom line you should not be folding this flop as the odds you have the best hand right now are very high, and this is a good sized pot that you would like to win, so you should checkraise to force the MP1 guy out. Making tough folds is not the way to make money playing limit poker. It sounds to me like you need to do some serious reading and thinking about the game. Read all the good 2+2 books on limit holdem starting with "Small Stakes holdem" and keep reading and posting hands on this website.

[ajm36]

I think you should c/c the flop with the intention of c/r the turn should a blank drop. The button has already called 1 SB and will probably call another from your raise. MP1 will likely call 2 SB's anyway (I might point out that MP1 does not look fishy, rather, he looks laggy--18 PFR?). This board may have hit others and some may have draws to very strong hands. I wait to see what develops on the turn, and then see if I can move to isolate.

[UCLAseetoK]

Anyone like donking the flop with the hopes of facing TAG button with 2cold? I don't think we mind trapping fishy MP1 between ourselves and PF raiser here.

[SnglMaltScotch]

I would check with the intention of c/r thus facing MP1 with 2 cold. Once the tag button just calls I put him squarely on a draw+overs. Most tags would raise anything &gt;J here. If CO 3bets I begin to worry A LOT!!

I don't much care for going donktastic here. What makes us think that CO is going to raise anything that we beat. This board to too scary to raise with overs and I don't see a &lt;J pp raising here.

[KNOCKAHOMA]

I am guessing this is a call pre-flop because he is in the BB, if not this is a definite fold, correct??