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#1
12-03-2005, 05:55 AM
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Re: 200/400 bellagio vs v good player
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] it's important to 3 bet and seize the initiative. [/ QUOTE ] This is such a common belief, that I'd like to discuss it further. Why, exactly, do you have to 3-bet to seize the initiative? Is there some rule that you can't bet the flop unless you 3-bet preflop? I think people get in this mode where they either have the lead, in which case they bet the next round, or they don't have the lead, in which case they check. This causes all kinds of weird suggestions like the idea that you must 3-bet because otherwise you are forced to check-fold an ace high flop. Huh? Why don't you just bet the flop?? -Eric [/ QUOTE ] IMO it is much easier to get them to fold (a) a better hand or (b) a hand with odds to draw if you take this "initiative" thingy. If she opens A7o and gets 3 bets by BB, IMO she's gonna have a hard time justifying a calldown if the board comes Q92. 
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#2
12-03-2005, 08:42 AM
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Re: 200/400 bellagio vs v good player
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] it's important to 3 bet and seize the initiative. [/ QUOTE ] This is such a common belief, that I'd like to discuss it further. Why, exactly, do you have to 3-bet to seize the initiative? Is there some rule that you can't bet the flop unless you 3-bet preflop? I think people get in this mode where they either have the lead, in which case they bet the next round, or they don't have the lead, in which case they check. This causes all kinds of weird suggestions like the idea that you must 3-bet because otherwise you are forced to check-fold an ace high flop. Huh? Why don't you just bet the flop?? -Eric [/ QUOTE ] I'm neither a high-stakes player nor a limit player, but (in addition to the fact that we're often ahead) don't we 3-bet preflop here to 1) get more action on our premium hands and 2) to make sure premium hands are in our range on this specific hand. The reason calling preflop and donking a flop isn't as successful, IMHO, is because when we 3-bet preflop, bet the flop, our opponent has to include preflop monsters in our range, which are very likely to have our opponent wrecked on most flops.
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#3
12-02-2005, 09:05 PM
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Re: 200/400 bellagio vs v good player
[ QUOTE ]
I hate your 3 bet preflop against a top player. You are out of position and will miss most times. [/ QUOTE ] if there is a reason to just call preflop its to checkraise most flops. i dont understand how "it will miss most times" is an argument for calling with KJ against someone who is presumably raising like 40-50% of her hands. obviously just calling and letting it go if he misses is sub-optimal. so what is your plan when you just call? how much attacking do you do on the flop? i think good K high hands are the best non-premium hands to 3-bet in this spot. you have good HU equity and you take initiative against A/K high or small pairs and put the burden on them to flop good. if he has 33 and the flop is A97, she will fold to a bet, whereas bk wouldve had to check fold because he missed (and a checkraise on the flop basically screams "I don't have an A"). likewise, if the flop is something like T87 or Q98 it is hard for A high to continue if she hasnt paired her kicker.
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#5
12-02-2005, 09:55 PM
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Re: 200/400 bellagio vs v good player
I agree that 3betting preflop is good most of the time for all those reasons. KJ is ahead of her button opening range i think, you get initiative and maybe start to convice her to back off a little. Betting and raising is better then checking and calling, I think you should have just 3bet the flop. Given that you didn't I sort of like calling the turn raise and betting a safe river. She doesn't get to check behind on the river, she doesn't get to four bet you on the turn and i always feel like this line extracts more honest action from your opponent on future hands.
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#7
12-11-2005, 12:21 AM
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Re: 200/400 bellagio vs v good player
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] ...a checkraise on the flop basically screams "I don't have an A"... [/ QUOTE ] A checkraise on an ace high flop screams you don't have an ace? What are you talking about? [/ QUOTE ] very few players checkraise an A on the flop after defending their blinds. it is way more typical for someone to check-call the flop, and it deviates from there. a raggy ace is certainly not cehckraising there. its a hand looking for action, or its a bluff, and the latter is way more common.
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#8
12-03-2005, 12:21 AM
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Re: 200/400 bellagio vs v good player
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Hi BK, I hate your 3 bet preflop against a top player. You are out of position and will miss most times. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not a big 3 better out of the blinds, but this one isn't even remotely close. I have a very solid image, she's giving me lots of respect...it's time to jack it up with KJ because like you said, I'm going to miss a lot. So is she. This helps me win the pot. I also have the best hand here most of the time too.
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#9
12-03-2005, 03:14 AM
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Re: 200/400 bellagio vs v good player
This is a very good hand to post, keep the live 200-400 hands coming. I think I like your line up to this point. We have yet to talk about the river but if u got there it was probably an interesting street itself. If somehow u could check-call a blank river to snap-off her 3rd semi-bluff with a high spade that would be like really cool. Any chance u tried it?
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#10
12-03-2005, 05:49 AM
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Re: 200/400 bellagio vs v good player
[ QUOTE ]
I hate your 3 bet preflop against a top player. You are out of position and will miss most times. [/ QUOTE ] I disagree with this. BK said that he has given her quite a bit of rope when he is in the blinds, and it is reasonable to believe that she is opneing very liberally against him. Being OOP sucks, but he likely has an equity edge agaisnt her range, not to mention the fact that last time he popped her back he showed down KK. IMO it is also good for metagame purposes to let her know she isn't gonna get a free ride every time she opens.
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