Home tourney ruling needed

[wdcbooks]

I play a home tourney every week with the same revolving cast of characters. These are good players with casino and online experience and unfortuantely donkeys are few and far between. The game is structure essentially as a Sit and Go, with 1500 chips to start.

I am on the button. Blinds are 10/25. The CO throws out a 100 chip. After a couple of seconds he says, 'Oh I raise to 100'. According to long standing rules, one chip preflop without a declaration is a call. I reraise to 300. The tourney host, a great guy, but a nit for following the rules, says 'Hold on, CO didn't say raise, he called and the raise is from 25 to 300'.

In this case he folded quickly and it was never an issue, but being a bit of a nit myself I wanted to know the proper ruling. Do I regain the option to make any raise I want, or does my raise stand even though the amount was predicated on the CO's mistake?

Thanks.

If you said "I raise to 300" or if you threw out 300 in chips, then your raise stands I believe.

I guess if you said something like "I triple it" then it would be 75 though :P

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According to long standing rules, one chip preflop without a declaration is a call.

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End of discussion right there. The rules were set before the game started and that's all there is to it.

The fact that it is a stupid rule is irrelevant.

[MickeyHoldem]

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The fact that it is a stupid rule is irrelevant.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[KenProspero]

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The fact that it is a stupid rule is irrelevant.


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ummmmmm, I thought the general rule is that unless someone declares a raise, a single oversized chip is treated as a call.

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Robert's Rules of Poker, Section 3.15 15. If you put a single chip in the pot that is larger than the bet , but do not announce a raise , you are assumed to have only called. Example: In a $3-$6 game, when a player bets $6 and the next player puts a $25 chip in the pot without saying anything, that player has merely called the $6 bet .

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The rule of a single chip raise without declaration is (in my opinion) a stupid rule. All I see it as a way to trap extra $$ into a pot and screw over another player. Its benefits are negligible. In a limit game, the rule has a purpose, but in no limit home game it it pointless. All this does is set up a possible angle shoot and who wants to have an angle shooter in a home game?

This case is a prime example of why that is a bad rule. The CO's intention was to raise the pot. He placed a raise in the pot. Verbal declarations should not be a requirement.

If there is a benefit to this rule that I am not aware of, please let me know because right now I see it as worthless.

That being said, it unfortunately is a rule in this game. If everyone was aware of the rules before the game began, then it is his responsibility to obey them.

I wrote my last post before I saw your post Ken.

I am not debating whether it is a rule or not. It definitely IS a rule. I just don't think it is a particularly good rule in NL.

In limit play, the rule is important and serves a purpose. The rules even give the example of a limit game because that is where the rule was intended for. However I do not see any benefits of it in NL play.

There has to be SOME sort of rule on throwing in an oversized chip. The current rule is that it is a call, unless the player says raise. The only other alternative is that it is a raise, unless the player says call.

How is one of those rules better than the other? It seems both are pretty similar in terms of its pros and cons, it just so happens the poker ruleset chose rule 1.

[MickeyHoldem]

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In a limit game, the rule has a purpose...

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So what purpose does this rule serve in limit??

[Piiop]

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The CO throws out a 100 chip. After a couple of seconds he says, 'Oh I raise to 100'

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I must be missing something here. He's the CO, you're the button. He puts out a chip and waits "a couple seconds" then says raise. No one else has acted, why wouldn't his raise stand?? Because he waited a couple seconds inbetween putting the chip out and verbally declaring raise?? His raise and your raise should stand.