NYC sucks (rant)

[lehighguy]

No one lives in NYC because it is clean and safe. And the people working in its high end industries do not come from the public schools.

NYC has lots of insanely rich people who can afford to isolate themselves from the shithole they live in. Some commute all the way from another state. They pay taxes only because they work there, and they work there only because that is where all the money is (based on historical reasons). It's a filthy horrible city and I'm glad I'm leaving.

[pokerdirty]

NYC would really suck without poor people

<font color="white"> please don't make me clarify, just think about it </font>

If you are paying $50,000 in NYC taxes, then you are making over $1.1 million.

Obey the law or stop whining about paying a ticket for an amount that is an infintesimal percentage of your income.

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Obey the law or stop whining about paying a ticket for an amount that is an infintesimal percentage of your income.

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These are two separate issues that you are trying to link for the purposes of whipping out the old class warfare card.

However they are intellectually discrete.

1. Obedience to laws. Yes, obviously, I agree that when you break laws, you need to face consequences. This is not the issue.

2. Normative propriety of taxation rules and spending priorities. This is my objection, and it has nothing to do with whether I should obey the law.

Let me use the police department as an example. NYPD is the largest PD in the country (about 3x more uniformed officers than LAPD, for example, even though it covers a much smaller territory).

LAPD has as its number one priority, law enforcement. It is a "hard core" policing organization focussed on interdicting crimes, solving crimes, patrolling, etc. It is highly effective, and has basically been the wellspring of every major policing advance--the SWAT team, the air unit, the police academy, etc. LAPD officers are the best in the country, man for man.

NYPD is a much less effective law enforcement organization. Its officers are less professional. It has lower physical fitness standards and academy qualifications than LAPD. NYPD's policing doctrine is much more about "standing post" than actively fighting crime.

NYPD is a perfect prism through which you can view most of city government. It is a city government overrun by bureaucracy, sinecures, union turf, hidebound programs and pseudo-public works projects, etc.

All of these spending programs are supported by a ridiculous, anti-taxpayer revenue collection system. A huge amount of city government is dedicated to the collection of revenues, as opposed to the provisioning of services.

This is worth bitching about.

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Obey the law or stop whining about paying a ticket for an amount that is an infintesimal percentage of your income.

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These are two separate issues that you are trying to link for the purposes of whipping out the old class warfare card.

However they are intellectually discrete.

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WTF??! Who are you kidding? _You_ are the one that linked your income and taxes to the $180 ticket. Now you complain when someone responds on your own terms? What a joke.

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1. Obedience to laws. Yes, obviously, I agree that when you break laws, you need to face consequences. This is not the issue.

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See above. You linked the consequences to your income. Not us.

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2. Normative propriety of taxation rules and spending priorities. This is my objection, and it has nothing to do with whether I should obey the law.

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Then why mention your lawbreaking (and its consequences) at all?

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This is worth bitching about.

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Spare us. You choose to live in the city. You could live right accross the Hudson and commute in on the Path in 15 mins and save your precious $50k subsidies of the "shiftless". You don't like it, move. There is no NYC commuter tax (contrary to lehighguy's post).

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_You_ are the one that linked your income and taxes to the $180 ticket.

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I linked the issues as an illustration of how the entire NYC revenue system is corrupt--it soaks the taxpayers through confiscatory income taxes, steep sales taxes (which I mind less), then at every turn tries to collect more money through thinly disguised additional taxes such as revenue-generating traffic traps, insanely effective meter enforcement, so-called "surcharges" put on top of tickets, etc. (A reasonable response might be that these are "use" taxes, but in truth, they are not. They are designed as revenue enhancing items.) I would have less objection if NYC actually enforced traffic rules that mattered, such as blocking the box or double parking. Zealous enforcement of such rules would improve the quality of life in the city by reducing congestion. However, NYPD Traffic never appears to enforce these rules, and instead spends all morning writing hundreds of tickets (Im not exaggerating here) to motorists who make a left-turn where absolutely every "normal" rule of the road would have permitted it. (In fact, I cant think of a single intersection on a small street in which a left turn on a green light isn't permitted. Obviously im excluding things like lefts across big streets like 42, 23, etc.) The signs were put up, and the trap was set, solely for revenue generating purposes, not for traffic enforcement/flow control. This is hidden taxation, and its outrageous.



[ QUOTE ]
Spare us. You choose to live in the city. You could live right accross the Hudson and commute in on the Path in 15 mins and save your precious $50k subsidies of the "shiftless". You don't like it, move. There is no NYC commuter tax (contrary to lehighguy's post).

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This point is totally valid. I have voted with my feet, so by staying in the city, Im voluntarily subjecting myself to its irrational taxation schemes.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
_You_ are the one that linked your income and taxes to the $180 ticket.

[/ QUOTE ]

I linked the issues as an illustration of how the entire NYC revenue system is corrupt--it soaks the taxpayers through confiscatory income taxes, steep sales taxes (which I mind less), then at every turn tries to collect more money through thinly disguised additional taxes such as revenue-generating traffic traps, insanely effective meter enforcement, so-called "surcharges" put on top of tickets, etc. (A reasonable response might be that these are "use" taxes, but in truth, they are not. They are designed as revenue enhancing items.) I would have less objection if NYC actually enforced traffic rules that mattered, such as blocking the box or double parking. Zealous enforcement of such rules would improve the quality of life in the city by reducing congestion. However, NYPD Traffic never appears to enforce these rules, and instead spends all morning writing hundreds of tickets (Im not exaggerating here) to motorists who make a left-turn where absolutely every "normal" rule of the road would have permitted it. (In fact, I cant think of a single intersection on a small street in which a left turn on a green light isn't permitted. Obviously im excluding things like lefts across big streets like 42, 23, etc.) The signs were put up, and the trap was set, solely for revenue generating purposes, not for traffic enforcement/flow control. This is hidden taxation, and its outrageous.



[ QUOTE ]
Spare us. You choose to live in the city. You could live right accross the Hudson and commute in on the Path in 15 mins and save your precious $50k subsidies of the "shiftless". You don't like it, move. There is no NYC commuter tax (contrary to lehighguy's post).

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This point is totally valid. I have voted with my feet, so by staying in the city, Im voluntarily subjecting myself to its irrational taxation schemes.

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Have you ever bothered to research how underpaid NYC cops are? To give you a hint, I'd estimate conservatively that Long Island cops make 30-40% more on average, and they're in much less danger, higher tax base notwithstanding. Take the subway once in awhile. See who the real hard workers are in New York.

[Wes ManTooth]

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NYPD is a much less effective law enforcement organization. Its officers are less professional. It has lower physical fitness standards and academy qualifications than LAPD. NYPD's policing doctrine is much more about "standing post" than actively fighting crime.


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After the train bombing in Spain last year the first US government organization to start investigating the scene was the NYPD. Yes, even before the FPI.

in addition the NYPD must be doing something right, total crime is down 8 percent in the last year.


NY crime
here are some interesting quotes....

"New York City ranked 221st out of 240 cities across the nation on the total crime index"

"The City’s murder rate of 7 per 100,000 of population in 2004 was half that of Los Angeles and Chicago which were 13.5 and 15.5 respectively"

"Over the past four years, the murder rate in New York City declined 12% (2004 compared to 2001) compared to a national decline of only 0.5% during the same period."

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After the train bombing in Spain last year the first US government organization to start investigating the scene was the NYPD. Yes, even before the FBI.

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I find this difficult to believe. Anything terrorism related goes through the NY JTTF. Maybe NYPD dispatched investigators to the scene who arrived before the feds, but this had to have gone through JTTF.

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NYPD must be doing something right, total crime is down 8 percent in the last year.

"The City’s murder rate of 7 per 100,000 of population in 2004 was half that of Los Angeles and Chicago which were 13.5 and 15.5 respectively"

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Crime is definitely down in the city, and the NYPD deserves some of the credit for that. (Although declining drug usage and an increasingly healthy economy were principally responsible for the turnaround.) Los Angeles remains a very violent city, by comparison.

Im surprised you didnt mention that the current LAPD chief, Bratton, is an ex-NYPD and Boston chief, and is credited with a decline in crime rates during his respective tenures. (LAPD had historically had a tradition of choosing insiders for the Chief position. Problems with Ramparts, Rodney King, etc., and a federal consent decree forced the introduction of outsiders.)

However, you cant just compare crime rates in LA and NY. LA just faces different issues, principally illegal immigration, and Hispanic/Black gangs, which in turn drive a violent drug trade. NY doesnt have this problem nearly as much as LA.

[PoBoy321]

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NYPD is a much less effective law enforcement organization. Its officers are less professional. It has lower physical fitness standards and academy qualifications than LAPD. NYPD's policing doctrine is much more about "standing post" than actively fighting crime.

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The NYPD is the only police department in America that doesn't need or use the Secret Service to help protect the President when he visits, so I think it's blatantly wrong to say that they are anything less than one of the most effective police departments in the country.