Oddly played T9s

[PTjvs]

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I agree that I probably should of raised preflop.


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Why? Do you really think T9s is the best hand at that point? Or do we have a read that we'll push the limper out if we bet the flop and he missed?


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Because it's very good to isolate weak/passive players who will go to showdown with any piece when your hand has absolutely no showdown value, like T9s. It's even better if one of the blinds are likely to come along & go to showdown with any piece as well.

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Why? Do you really think T9s is the best hand at that point? Or do we have a read that we'll push the limper out if we bet the flop and he missed?


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Because it's very good to isolate weak/passive players who will go to showdown with any piece when your hand has absolutely no showdown value, like T9s. It's even better if one of the blinds are likely to come along & go to showdown with any piece as well.

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So would you raise 23s in this situation? 45s? 78s? Are we just counting on the fact we can outplay them post flop?

I just don't get trying to isolate with what we're pretty damn sure is a worse hand than the person were isolating. Raising with a worse hand is -EV right? What makes it +EV in the long run?

There's some key concept I'm just not groking.

[PTjvs]

I was fairly certain my sarcasm was evident, but maybe not. I don't understand the crowd that wants to isolate when they have no showdown value at all, unless it's some guy who always check/folds missed flops (I have never met this guy btw).

jvs

[Spicymoose]

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I was fairly certain my sarcasm was evident, but maybe not. I don't understand the crowd that wants to isolate when they have no showdown value at all, unless it's some guy who always check/folds missed flops (I have never met this guy btw).

jvs

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CO's preflop limp can be a wide array of things, but we definetly have pretty good equity. Against a somewhat likely range of his holdings, we have 45% hot cold equity (I did this by selecting the top 40% or so of hands for him in PokerStove, and removing some of the best ones that he would be raising with). With a 3rd player we have about 31% equity.

Now, although we have slight equity deficiencies, we have a HUGE advantage with position and folding equity and the fact that our opponent will most likely make many post flop mistakes.

The fact that we have no showdown value UI isn't really much of a problem. We will flop a straight or flush draw or a pair or better over 50% of the time with this hand. The rest of the time, if you use good judgement, you might be able to win anyways, or at least keep your losses to a minimum.

I don't consider limping a big mistake though. As you see, that is what I did in this hand, and I think it has merits as well.

I think the postflop play is more interesting than preflop play, so can we try to keep the discussion focused on that in this thread?

Thanks,
Spicymoose