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#1
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So, one of the holes in my game is aggession. I think this is the type of situation where I tighten up because I'm not sure what to do.
SB - 13%/6% AF 2.14 after 285 hands - likely the best (solid) player at the table UTG+1 - 17%/2% AF 1.14 after 89 hands - Tight-passive, but maybe not catching any real cards. EP - 72%/1% AF 0.77 after 107 hands - Complete fish, will show anything down. PokerRoom 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx Preflop: Hero is with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, EP calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks. Flop: (6 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font> SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, EP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, EP calls. Turn: (5 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> SB checks, UTG+1 checks, EP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, EP calls. River: (9 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> SB checks, UTG+1 checks, EP checks, Hero ... I'm not sure what SB & UTG+1 are hanging around for. From what I've seen, SB would have raised by now, and UTG+1 would have folded by now. EP doesn't worry me. So, I'm concerned about a Q, AJ, or a random 4. What's my line? Thanks |
#2
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I would raise PF if you're going to play at all. I would definately check the river with that many players calling me down.
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#3
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Given your reads on the two better players, I'm happy to check behind here. SB will complete enough Q9s, QT hands to do this. If you were up against a bunch of EPish guys, then I think it's a valuebet.
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#4
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I think busted draws fold and strangely played better hands call. I can't imagine anyone not betting a queen on that flop. Weak Q's might check/call. Other jacks would likely do the same. Still, I think I bet it. If the river had completed any logical draw this would be an easy check behind. Here, I think I bet expecting to take it down, and the few times I am called, I I will occasionally be shown a worse hand.
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#5
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I bet. I can think of several hands that are calling down in this situation that you have beat and will call a bet on the river.
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#6
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[ QUOTE ]
So, one of the holes in my game is aggression. [/ QUOTE ] First things first. Limping here is a significant error. If there is a poster and you are not in the blinds, then letting the poster in for free is almost always wrong. Even without the poster this is frequently a raise (and if not then is almost always a fold). With the poster, even more so. As for the river, I think it is just too thin. I am checking behind. |
#7
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[ QUOTE ]
First things first. Limping here is a significant error. If there is a poster and you are not in the blinds, then letting the poster in for free is almost always wrong. Even without the poster this is frequently a raise (and if not then is almost always a fold). With the poster, even more so. [/ QUOTE ] This may well be a problem for me. I don't have it handy, but I think SSHE says call, not raise with KJo in middle position. Granted, I normally do raise when posters come in. However, I was familiar with this poster. Also, I was worried about those still to act. I'm in MP2. MP3 was Tight/Passive. The CO (poster) was a TAG, the Button was a TAG, and the SB was a TAG. I had taken a few bad beatings from being in front of the Button and SB, so I may have been playing gunshy here. |
#8
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] First things first. Limping here is a significant error. If there is a poster and you are not in the blinds, then letting the poster in for free is almost always wrong. Even without the poster this is frequently a raise (and if not then is almost always a fold). With the poster, even more so. [/ QUOTE ] This may well be a problem for me. I don't have it handy, but I think SSHE says call, not raise with KJo in middle position. Granted, I normally do raise when posters come in. However, I was familiar with this poster. Also, I was worried about those still to act. I'm in MP2. MP3 was Tight/Passive. The CO (poster) was a TAG, the Button was a TAG, and the SB was a TAG. I had taken a few bad beatings from being in front of the Button and SB, so I may have been playing gunshy here. [/ QUOTE ] I am certain that SSH says to call with KJo in any unraised pot. SSH's pre-flop charts say a lot of things which are wrong in some situations (as SSH itself points out). Playing with a poster definitely qualifies. Limping this against SSHs mythical table of loose passives is fine (although so is raising, depending on the players). But you have a bunch of TAGs behind you; why do you want to play a multi-handed pot with TAGs with KJo? With that hand, I want to play small fields with passive opponents, not large fields with aggressive ones. If I am worried about the TAGs behind me, I may shy away from KJo in MP, but if I am playing it, I am raising it. |
#9
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Thanks. This is the kind of advice that I'm looking for to correct my play. Worrying about their actions, I made the wrong pre-flop play.
For the record, I checked the river. Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF"> SB has Jh Td (two pair, jacks and fours). UTG+1 has Kc Tc (one pair, fours). EP has 2s 2d (two pair, fours and twos). Hero has Kd Jc (two pair, jacks and fours). Outcome: Hero wins 9 BB. </font> |
#10
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*grunch*
I like your hand as played. On the river you are up against two players in a situation where it is hard to know what they have because all they have done is call. I think the key here is reads. The more of a calling station the more likely you can bet for value (even against three players). When your opponents are trickier or more solid your bet has almost zero expectation. Against a solid player if you bet and he has nothing he folds. If you bet and he has a hand he calls and you lose. If he will call only when you lose the expectation is zero. Its even worse aginst a tricky player who might check raise and cost you two bets if you are behind. In this case against two players with fairly solid stats I would check behind. (if all opponents had stats like EP I might bet for value even against three players) |
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