why you should raise pf with nonpaired cards to get 2 callers not 1

[john kane]

in response to the thoughts of the poster with the reasons against my theory;

a) There's not really any raise that accomplishes what you are trying to do very often.

short handed id say if you have 1 limper a raise to 3xBB or on a tighter table to 2.5BB often does the trick. if you have no limpers or utg a min raise.

b) Your hand is much more likely to be good when you do flop (even when you don't), when you are heads up.

indeed, but that is of no relevance. You have taken an slightly better than even money bet (your bet vs opponent's call+blinds). You should therefore need to be ahead more often than when you are three way when you are getting more value on your money. Plus, you are more likely to know if you are ahead 3 way if you are looking to hit, as you know your cards, whereas heads up you are playing the weakness of the opponents cards, which you obviously do not know what they are.

c) You should still be continuation betting quite a bit when you get 2 callers.

if you know they are tight and the flop contains a J, Q or K, then i probably would last to act if its been checked round. but in many circumstances its a wasted bet. if you want to show a LAG style to your play its better to play your made hands aggressively and be aggressive preflop than bet into a flop pot.

d) Multiway pots are (generally) more difficult to play.

i disagree. you are playing the strength of your cards, which you know. heads up you are playing the weakness of your opponents cards, which you do not know.

e) You seem to be assuming that you always win when you flop a pair.

For simplicity yes. As i am assuming that if you miss you lose, disgarding the times you see a free turn card and hit and win. Anyway, that aside, so long as what win compared to what you lose is on average higher than the 2xwhat you put in preflop (to make up for the 2 in 3 you miss the flop and lose), which it certainly should be, you will win.

f) You are not committing yourself to continuation betting. There are many situations/reasons to check behind on the flop some percentage of the time.

and then the opponent sees your weakness, bets, and you lose, he bluffed you.

g) You are ignoring position
for simplicity yes, i didnt think people would want me to go about that as well, but of course you want to be raising in the first 4 poistions and not in the SB or BB.



Im not saying you should be strictly playing the strength of your cards, and ignoring any weakness in the opponent, but that weakness can be discovered on the turn and river betting round, not blindly firing off a continuation bet heads up making a gamble to gain 1 unit of opponents chips gambling 2 units of your own, when he should have you beat that same percentage time (hitting the flop 1 time for every 2 times he misses). So a more +EV play is to see it 3 way for the explanation of math in my first post.

[Slappz]

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d) Multiway pots are (generally) more difficult to play.

i disagree. you are playing the strength of your cards, which you know. heads up you are playing the weakness of your opponents cards, which you do not know.


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This is very wrong. If your better than your opponents than heads up is the best scenerio for you, regardless of your cards. Multiway pots you cant just play your hand strength (lets say you get TPTK) and someone checkraises you on the flop, you wont have a clue what they have because multiway pots tend to get a lot more creative hands in there.

[jjacky]

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e) You seem to be assuming that you always win when you flop a pair.

For simplicity yes. As i am assuming that if you miss you lose, disgarding the times you see a free turn card and hit and win. Anyway, that aside, so long as what win compared to what you lose is on average higher than the 2xwhat you put in preflop (to make up for the 2 in 3 you miss the flop and lose), which it certainly should be, you will win.


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if you assume that you win if you hit a pair, you should want to have 9 callers. do you see why?

[Chaostracize]

I would say 80% of the pots I win I have absolutely nothing. Are you forgetting Shania?