150/300 bellagio hand - Page 8

lapoker17 · #1 11-10-2005, 04:36 PM

God I hate when people do this type of [censored].

Announce "1 pair", flip it up after he taps the table, it's not that hard.

It must be draining to actually look for moments in life when you can be an A-hole.

elindauer · #2 11-10-2005, 05:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
God I hate when people do this type of [censored].

Announce "1 pair", flip it up after he taps the table, it's not that hard.

It must be draining to actually look for moments in life when you can be an A-hole.

[/ QUOTE ]

The opponent wants to see bike's hand, but doesn't want to show his own, despite the fact that the rules of the game state that he must declare his hand first. He is requesting a favor from his opponent, a request that he keep some information hidden. I have no problem with this.

I do find it interesting though that if bike wants to see villain's cards or not have to show, if bike wants to keep information about his cards hidden, if bike chooses to see all the information to which he is rightfully entitled, requesting no special favor beyond following the rules of the game, then he's being in ass.

What?

It seems to me that the best solution is to announce your own hand quality, "one pair", giving the opponent the opportunity to know that he is beaten so he doesn't have to show if he chooses to keep that information concealed. It's a nice gesture, giving him an option beyond the rules, and allows you to both benefit at the expense of the table by keeping all cards hidden. If he decides he doesn't want to give you the favor of keeping your cards hidden, then his own request is denied as well, and he must show.

-eric

lapoker17 · #3 11-10-2005, 06:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I do find it interesting though that if bike wants to see villain's cards or not have to show, if bike wants to keep information about his cards hidden, if bike chooses to see all the information to which he is rightfully entitled, requesting no special favor beyond following the rules of the game, then he's being in ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be a good point if he had a worse King.

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if bike chooses to see all the information to which he is rightfully entitled

[/ QUOTE ]

Letter of the law stuff. Not really applicable here (if you've played live poker for high stakes).

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that the best solution is to announce your own hand quality, "one pair", giving the opponent the opportunity to know that he is beaten so he doesn't have to show

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's what I said.

Ulysses · #4 11-10-2005, 07:26 PM

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Letter of the law stuff. Not really applicable here (if you've played live poker for high stakes).

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Exactly. Letter of the law. F that nonsense.

Whatever happened to poker as a gentleman's game?

Jeffage · #5 11-13-2005, 05:45 AM

I agree with El D on this. As long as I know the other player or he has not been a royal prick, I will be a gentlemen and turn over if I catch them bluffing and they say they have nothing. If I have some reason to believe I won't be extended the same courtesy or this person is not friendly, I may just sit their till they turn over. I mean, they're basically giving you information by saying their hand is busted or if they say ace high or whatever. I don't go for blood money in these spots and just take the pot down. Many people I play with would extend me the same courtesy.

Jeff

skp · #6 11-10-2005, 06:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I do find it interesting though that if bike wants to see villain's cards or not have to show, if bike wants to keep information about his cards hidden, if bike chooses to see all the information to which he is rightfully entitled, requesting no special favor beyond following the rules of the game, then he's being in ass.

What?

[/ QUOTE ]

But in poker, not every technically correct move is considered to be proper etiquette.

For example, it is technicaly correct to ask to see your opponent's hand when he calls and quietly mucks his hand. But that is poor etiquette. Similarly, it has become the norm to just show your hand when the other guy says "I missed" even though what BK did is technically correct.

Ulysses · #7 11-10-2005, 07:17 PM

I bet, BK calls. I flip over my AQ. BK goes to muck. I ask the dealer to see his hand.

Is this something you would do? If not, please explain how it is different than BK's situation. BK has shown that he has a worse hand than mine by mucking, but I still have the right to get more information - ie: what exactly BK's hand was.

In both cases, one player has let the other know his hand is good. In both cases, the player with the best hand has the right to see the worse hand.

I don't exercise my right in either case.

How about you?

(Yes, of course I know the rules and reasoning of IWTSH, but the application of it often comes down to a matter of etiquette, not rules)

Schneids · #8 11-10-2005, 07:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I bet, BK calls. I flip over my AQ. BK goes to muck. I ask the dealer to see his hand.

Is this something you would do? If not, please explain how it is different than BK's situation. BK has shown that he has a worse hand than mine by mucking, but I still have the right to get more information - ie: what exactly BK's hand was.

In both cases, one player has let the other know his hand is good. In both cases, the player with the best hand has the right to see the worse hand.

I don't exercise my right in either case.

How about you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally different don't even pretend they're the same, and you know it.

Ulysses · #9 11-10-2005, 07:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I bet, BK calls. I flip over my AQ. BK goes to muck. I ask the dealer to see his hand.

Is this something you would do? If not, please explain how it is different than BK's situation. BK has shown that he has a worse hand than mine by mucking, but I still have the right to get more information - ie: what exactly BK's hand was.

In both cases, one player has let the other know his hand is good. In both cases, the player with the best hand has the right to see the worse hand.

I don't exercise my right in either case.

How about you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally different don't even pretend they're the same, and you know it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Matter of opinion. In a number of the big NL games I've played in, both would be considered exactly the same.

I have not played in any big live limit games, so perhaps things are different there.

Overall, I have found that big NL games and players have a different level of class, civility, and etiquette. Every time I read about arguments, dealer abuse, fights, and other such nonsense at places like the Bellagio and Commerce, it's always in limit games. I've seen almost none of this crap in big NL games.

brick · #10 11-10-2005, 11:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I bet, BK calls. I flip over my AQ. BK goes to muck. I ask the dealer to see his hand.
Is this something you would do? If not, please explain how it is different than BK's situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is any easy one. It's different because this is how poker has worked for many years. I call your bet, you show your hand. If you call my bet, I show my hand.

Poker isn't commonly a game where everyone turns their hand over at the end. You only find this among beginners.

Play like men you wimps. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] If you're going to bluff then you risk me picking it off and finding out what you have.

On a side note if anyone wants to read the the rules: http://www.goldenruleofpoker.com/pok...oker-rules.htm