Does this count as winning a fight?

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But this does not abswer the question of just shooting them non lethaly. If I pull a gun and incapicitate someone with it, is this the same as using a baseball bat to do the same thing. If I do so have I won a fight?

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Pulling a gun out is a whole different ball game from a bat. Way worse for you in legal terms. Plus shooting someone is ridiculously lillegal, except for very few circumstances. You'd have to prove that your life was in imminent danger and the ONLY way to save yourself was to shoot the guy.

I doutb the jury will change their min din any way considering you went for a "non lethal" shot (which there are almost 0 in hte body, almost any gun shot wound is potentially fatal)

[The once and future king]

Yes but then again the non lethal weapon seems like an arbitrary distinction. If someone punches you and you pull a gun and shoot them non lethaly, (or lethaly for that matter) have you won a fight?

[ScottyP431]

Actually, you are not thinking this through. Using a bat vs an unarmed opponent does not = winning a fight. Did you beat the other guy down? Yes. It was not a fight.

Implicit in fighting, especially when you initiate hostilities as the op did, is a social contract of fairness. Going around picking fights only to then use a weapon of some kind violates said social contract. Its like hitting other speed skaters at the olympics to knock them down. It's cheating. And cheaters never win. You're argument boils down to justifying me saying i beat michael jordan 1 on 1 cause i hit him in the knee Tania harding style and then ran circles around him as he lay on the floor unable to move/crying.

But more importantly, the use of mace degrades the entire notion of a masculine test of manhood which is obviously what he is going for (whether you agree with it or not) when he says his goal is to win a fight. If you provoke someone smaller than you into a fight, and then use a headlock and mace, you have lost a lot more than just the fight, and you have won nothing (though you have been entered into the biggest douche in the universe contest,so you could still win that)

[jaydub]

There is no social contract in a fight. Your analogies do not apply because there are no rules in a fight. If you doubt this then you probably have not been in many fights.

[ScottyP431]

You are wrong, this isnt vietnam, there are rules. People who get into a lot of fights do have a lot of unwritten rules like no weapons, not continuing to pummel someone after they are unconscious etc. Violation of these rules normally results in outside intervention, such as friends stopping the fight. In fact, the last fight i saw involving several random strangers who happend to be playing at the same basketball court, there was actually a pause right before the fight when one of the people basically asked for a rules clarification (technically he asked if any of the "fags" were going to "grab his jock" during the fight) and his friends said it was unnecesary, people knew the rules(something like "even fags know whats what" is what he actually said), then there was a pretty brutal 4 on 4 throwdown. No one used weapons.

It doesnt take a genius to figure out using mace is cheating.

[RunDownHouse]

I hope you don't end up in the hospital for believing everyone abides by these "rules."

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You are wrong, this isnt vietnam, there are rules. People who get into a lot of fights do have a lot of unwritten rules like no weapons, not continuing to pummel someone after they are unconscious etc. Violation of these rules normally results in outside intervention, such as friends stopping the fight.

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Seriously, you've been hanging out with too many middle class/college educated folks, and you just dont understand how sociopathic the criminal element is in our society. Just because you would not pull a weapon out there does not mean that other people won't.

Check out some of these videos. Fight videos I particularly remember the one called "skater beats guy with skateboard" because it shows how antisocial some people really are. The guy who got his ass beaten got to live only because the antisocial skater punk chose not to kill him.

If you dont think fights are deadly serious business--and potentially life ending--you are in denial. Your best option for personal security is a lifelong committment to avoidance, de-escalation, and deterrence. But when those tactics fail, you have to be ready to use your hands, a knife, or a gun.

[RunDownHouse]

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Implicit in fighting, especially when you initiate hostilities as the op did, is a social contract of fairness.

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See, this is the fallacy. We even had a thread on this not too long ago. There is no structure to a street fight. There's no concept of "fairness." The bullshit chest bumping and posturing that prefaces many fights is ridiculous, and the second you "step up" in my face, making it clear that you want a fight, I'm going to clock you. And then try to break your hand/wrist/arm while you're on the ground. That's precisely why there's a difference between a boxing match and a street fight, and that's where your basketball analogy breaks down. Boxing is given a defined structure which changes it from being a brawl to being a "fair" fight.

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But more importantly, the use of mace degrades the entire notion of a masculine test of manhood which is obviously what he is going for (whether you agree with it or not) when he says his goal is to win a fight.

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I disagree that a test of manhood was what he "obviously" wanted, but if you'll read my post, I agree that winning the fight in that manner would provide no such satisfaction if that was indeed the ultimate goal.

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Implicit in fighting... is the concept of survival at all costs

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FYP.

If you're talking about "social contracts", you havent been in many fights. Perhaps you're on a college campus where "fighting" means two drunken frat boys wrestling around the beer keg, but in the real world, fights are fast, nasty things.

I've been in 3 fights in my life. In two of them, the other guy went to the hospital with a broken elbow and knee, respectively, and in the other fight, I got my ass kicked badly until I managed to pull a knife. I deployed the blade, made a quick reverse slash that missed, and the other guy decided to disengage at that point.

Looking for fights like your friend did is just plain stupid, because some day he's going to pick a fight with a guy who is going to cut his goddamn throat open or cap him at contact distance with a pistol.

[Los Feliz Slim]

Was it a fight? Yes.

Did Mapplethorpe win the fight? Yes.

It shouldn't be sufficient for his "goals", but look who you're talking about, people.