Micro LO8 - My first hand post

#1 10-06-2005, 10:06 AM

Well, I've played an orbit and a half, played one hand in LP where I scooped, and this is the very next hand. No reads, no idea how to play. I play holdem of course.

The hand right before this was the first I'd played outside the blinds. Had 6c 4d 3c 2c and board was Qc5h4s 2d Ah.

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Omaha/8 (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds.

Turn: (6 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls $0.15 (All-In), UTG+1 calls.
 Things are getting dicey here, but I have a boat and if a 4 drops, I got the low. 

River: (15.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players, 1 all-in)
UTG+1 bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls, Button calls, UTG+1 3-bets, MP2 caps, Hero calls, Button folds, UTG+1 calls.
 After the cap, I wanted to fold, but I don't have a good reason for it. Would this guy jam a flush like this? 

Final Pot: 29.50 BB
 I did a lot of calling here, and seem to be doing a lot more of it in LO8 than I ever did in LHE.

As Zehn · #2 10-06-2005, 10:24 AM

If a 4 drops on the turn A5 would have the nut low, you would have 8432A. In fact, 76, 75 A7, 65 and A6 would beat your hand for the low.

Since you are only playing for the high half of the pot with a weak hand I would fold on the flop after my A2 was counterfeited. I am an O8 noob also so you might want to disregard my advice. If wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.

Webster · #3 10-06-2005, 11:11 AM

interesting hand - I'm also a noob but I think I would have folded out of confusion and knowing that every thing I look at I have a non nut against a lot of players.

Yea you have a boat but with those cards SOMEBODY as a 3 and a higher boat. The only time I get excited about 3 of a kind is if its TOP.

So on the turn you need 2 cards for a low and you have a non-nut high.

Very nice hand to post - thanks - waiting for the more experienced guys to chime in.

Note on folding in confusion. So far everytime I get confused and fold knowing that I do not have a nut - I have thanked myself, and everytime I have stuck it out my non-nut hand is a loser.

#4 10-06-2005, 11:12 AM

Thanks, I was thinking that someone would tell me to fold on the turn or definitely on the river. I hadn't even considered folding a set on the flop.

#5 10-06-2005, 11:56 AM

On the flop: at this level, I would not expect most to fold if they have anything playable, so you're not going to bet out anyone with your set of deuces. You're playing for 1/2 the pot at best in all likelihood. And anyone with a flush draw will hang around, even more likely if they also have a low draw. I think it's an easy fold on the flop after the player to your right bets.

#6 10-06-2005, 12:04 PM

I would add that one of the skills that one must acquire when beginning to play LO8 seriously is the ability to lay down hands that look pretty but most likely will wind up costing you money. This hand is one of them.

dcasper70 · #7 10-06-2005, 01:15 PM

wouldn't surprise me at all if you're up against A38x or A3Jx, also possible at that level to see 4588, 34Jx, 348x etc.
Niss is right, sometimes you just gotta let it go...

Webster · #8 10-06-2005, 02:43 PM

niss has that one correct. I had to fold a set last night on the flop and it took all my will power to do it. It goes against everything I know in hold'm. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

After losing 4 or 5 times that way I learned.

Buzz · #9 10-06-2005, 03:09 PM

Vincent - Simulation of your hand immediately after the flop shows the best high hand you make by the river:
• 5984 trip deuces
• 150 wheel
• 363 backdoor diamond flush
• 3049 full house
• 443 quads
• 11 straight flush (diamond wheel)

Of these, against six random, non-folding hands, you end up winning high:
• 913/5984 trip deuces
• 18/150 wheel
• 363/363 backdoor diamond flush
• 1346/3049 full house
• 441/443 quads
• 9/11 straight flush (diamond wheel)

After this flop, someone probably has low and may be betting it. Or someone may have low plus something for high and will probably be betting it.

Your flopped trip deuces are probably the best high hand immediately after the flop but for the most part they will need to improve on the turn or river in order for you to have much of a chance of winning for high.

Over half the time (5071/10000), your flopped trip deuces won't improve on the turn or river. But by the time you get to the fourth betting round, the pot size will be so big, even if some of your opponents drop out along the way, that you'll be getting favorable odds to call one more bet, even though your unimproved trip deuces will lose on the river more than six times as often as they'll win.

In other words, if you decide to continue after this flop, you'll be stuck in the pot because of the size of the pot.

Four players have checked by the time the player immediately in front of you bets. If you make it a double bet, some of these players and maybe the Button will probably fold in most casino games. (But I don't know if anyone will fold to a double bet if playing micro-limits - and in some casino games they won't either).

You will improve your chances of winning with unimproved trip deuces (and also the various improved hands you expect to make by the river some of the time) if you manage to reduce the field.

Bottom line: Pump it or dump it.

In other words, I don't think you should call after this flop and betting action. You should either fold or raise.

[ QUOTE ]
Things are getting dicey here, but I have a boat and if a 4 drops, I got the low.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do have a boat but you probably won't have the low if a four drops (although it's not impossible).

[ QUOTE ]
I did a lot of calling here, and seem to be doing a lot more of it in LO8 than I ever did in LHE.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you do end up calling more in Omaha-8 than in Texas hold 'em. The reason is you're usually on a draw and you usually won't have good enough odds to initiate fresh money into the pot - but you often will have good enough odds to call a bet (because of money already in the pot and implied pot odds).

However, I wouldn't be calling after this flop. I'd either be raising or folding, depending on which I thought would work best against the particular group of opponents I was facing. In other words, sometimes I'd raise and other times I'd fold with your particular hand/flop, depending on my opponents - but I wouldn't call.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

Ironman · #10 10-06-2005, 03:12 PM

I also agree with Niss.

But I would have played this hand differently.

In the cutoff with all those people in front of me, I would have raised preflop.

Would it have knocked out the blinds...I don't know, but it would have put the rest of the table on the defensive right away. There is a very good chance that if you raised preflop, that the action would have checked to you...and I would have checked along to get a free look at the turn.

Since you showed no strength, there was a bet in front of you on the flop....I would have folded.

You had good position and good cards and didn't use it.

Dave