5-10 NL straight flush draw

[jetsg4]

[ QUOTE ]
His opponent got the money in good on every street and stacked his opponent. I would play the flop differently than he did, but I wouldn't go around calling someone a donkey when every cent that went in on three different streets was with them having the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

i wasn't calling his opponent a donkey, i said "a donkey check/raise check" and i love playing with people that open riase with A/rag suited... you can play strictly ABC and get this money back in no time.

against this player, and most that generally populate the games... i can't see you laying down this hand with those odds and it being profitable... IMO

post how long it takes you to recover this loss from this player... if this was the only hand you played with this guy, damn shame... but it's most likely not the only hand you'll play with him, and i bet you get more action from him now getting stacked with 56

i say NH and good investment.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
i love playing with people that open riase with A/rag suited... you can play strictly ABC and get this money back in no time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm... I guess I better re-evaluate my standard play of opening w/ A-rag suited. Crap, just when I thought I had pre-flop figured out.

[ QUOTE ]
i can't see you laying down this hand with those odds and it being profitable... IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel the exact opposite way and think this is exactly where the expert player's edge comes from. You get paid off 100% when you make a bigger flush, but when you make a smaller flush you can get away when it's obvious you're probably beat.

[jetsg4]

if he said, villian is a good player, one of the few at the table who's play i respect... yeah, but he said he's loose preflop and nothing impressive post flop... i don't run for the hills against people i read this way when the pot is laying me 3:1

i don't now and never will...

on a side note... u open with a3 suited from utg+1???

and yes, i think ABC play makes money from the player he described.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
if he said, villian is a good player, one of the few at the table who's play i respect... yeah

[/ QUOTE ]
This is so completely backwards, it boggles my mind. On a general aside, this type of comment crops up on this board all the time and it is utterly shocking how wrong it is. Just think about it for a minute. What does it mean for someone to be a good player? What does that imply for our willingness to lay down here?

[jetsg4]

my thinking here is a good player, that plays a solid game that isn't chip spewing and a "loser" in the game(as our player here is), makes this move i then consider laying it down. still not saying that i would, it would depend on the situation, but in this case with the player described and the odds the pot is laying.. i don't fold.

if you're wrong, it'll be much easier to recoup the loss from the loser than the solid player

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
my thinking here is a good player, that plays a solid game that isn't chip spewing and a "loser" in the game(as our player here is), makes this move i then consider laying it down.

[/ QUOTE ]
yes, I understood that, but your thinking is wrong. A 'solid' player does not have more 'solid' hands. A 'solid' player has a wide range of hands. That's what makes him solid. It's hard to put him on a hand. So you have to lay down LESS often, not MORE. Which is why they get paid off MORE. Which is why they are solid in the first place. They make more money. Because they pull more moves. So they get paid more. If the guy is a loser in the game, it is likely because he is too straightforward. Which means that he has a narrow hand range. Which means that you can read his hand more easily. Which means that you can fold here. Which means he doesn't get paid off. Which is why he is a loser. If you do not understand these very fundamental concepts, I don't know what else I can say.

[jetsg4]

i agree with you on some point and not on others...

in a donkfest game with maybe 1 or 2 good players and the rest total softies... why would i want to take a marginal spot with one of the few people at the table that are good? i'd pick a better spot.

if you do make a misplay/misread/get unlucky against one of the softies, it's going to be a lot easier to recoup from them than the good players

in a game that is SOLID, i agree with you a lot more here... going to have to get toe to toe with them in that game, but i just don't see it being +EV to get involved with a GOOD player in a field of ATMs

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my thinking here is a good player, that plays a solid game that isn't chip spewing and a "loser" in the game(as our player here is), makes this move i then consider laying it down.

[/ QUOTE ]
yes, I understood that, but your thinking is wrong. A 'solid' player does not have more 'solid' hands. A 'solid' player has a wide range of hands. That's what makes him solid. It's hard to put him on a hand. So you have to lay down LESS often, not MORE. Which is why they get paid off MORE. Which is why they are solid in the first place. They make more money. Because they pull more moves. So they get paid more. If the guy is a loser in the game, it is likely because he is too straightforward. Which means that he has a narrow hand range. Which means that you can read his hand more easily. Which means that you can fold here. Which means he doesn't get paid off. Which is why he is a loser. If you do not understand these very fundamental concepts, I don't know what else I can say.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very good post.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
i love playing with people that open riase with A/rag suited... you can play strictly ABC and get this money back in no time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, this is terrible. If you think playing ABC poker is a good way to respond to somebody who mixes up preflop standards regardless of position, you're going to get demolished by a good player. Just wait until you flop your set and only get action if your opponent has some super-concealed nut hand.

[jetsg4]

i read/understood his description of this guy as the typical WPT watching softy... why isn't ABC poker good against these players?? bluffs are almost meaningless against most of them, and they tend to overplay hands such as top pair decent kicker...i was stating that playing ABC against these players will result in a return, not saying playing above ABC is bad or to ONLY play ABC against them..

and this isn't someone mixing it up:
"UTG+1 is a mediocre postflop and loose preflop player. He's probably a slight loser in the game. He'll raise any pair, any suited ace, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ from UTG+1 after a limper, but he's also capable of raising weird hands OOP to isolate."

this guy raises with any "20" and just about any ace... not exactly a preflop powerhouse just trying to mix up his game.