America won the vietnam war

[ACPlayer]

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You just said you support state sponsored police and forced taxation. Both of those curtail freedom. So I don't know where the above statement comes from

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If you think that living in America is not living in a free society (we have police and we have taxation) then there is not much point in discussing this further. I define a free society as one that, generally, conforms to some version of our bill of rights (freedoms of speech, assembly etc).

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The Japanese, Germans, Koreans, and others cooperated and they benefitted greatly. If the Vietnamese had done the same, things would be better for them now

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The Japanese and germans initiated the war and were beaten. There is a difference between that and our (mis-)adventures in Vietnam and Iraq (in Vietnam we fled with our tails between our legs and the smart money is that something similar is likely in Iraq).


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Are you going to sit there and tell me that we shouldn't have gotten rid of Hitler in the mid-late 30s?

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Only in hindsight. Of course if in circa 1930 we had the foresight to see what was coming we could have solved the Hitler problem in many different ways.

Incidentally, in hindsight, we will be saying the the world would have been a better place if Gore had won in 2000.

[lehighguy]

"If you think that living in America is not living in a free society (we have police and we have taxation) then there is not much point in discussing this further. I define a free society as one that, generally, conforms to some version of our bill of rights (freedoms of speech, assembly etc)."

Total freedom exists somewhere in PVNs crazy world. No freedom exists in an authoritarian state. Everything in between in a mixed state in which some freedoms are curtailed for the greater good. We both endorse mixed systems and logically therefore admit the the curtailment of certain freedoms is sometimes beneficial. Thus rejecting your freedom is always the solution statement.

"The Japanese and germans initiated the war and were beaten."

Does is matter the circumstances under which the war was initiated? Not according to your statement about dealing with Hitler pre-war.

Moreover, you haven't answered the question. If the Vietnamese or Iraqis simply cooperated would they be better of today?

"Only in hindsight. Of course if in circa 1930 we had the foresight to see what was coming we could have solved the Hitler problem in many different ways."

I really don't think it took a lot of foresight to see what Hitler intended to do. He wrote books about it and published them widely. Churchil figured it out pretty early.

Different ways that involved using force against a democratically elected government of another country.