what affects roi the most?

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say it's the pushes late in the game. When the blinds are high, what you push and what people call with is the difference between if you place and where you place...which is, after all, where your ROI comes from.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, but learning that is easy (relatively). Its effect over 1 SNG is enormous, granted, but if you choose your pushes and calls wisely, then over time, this should be a nuetral variable for good players.

Raptor's point is a good one. For instance, thinking about his reponse and mine, I think early game looseness is where I get into trouble (and even when I'm leaking like a whore I still do ok). At the lower levels though, exploiting the bubble is where your ROI is made, which contradicts what I say, yes, but if I always know good bubble play (which I think I do), then my ROI goes up or down from somehting else, meaning early-mid game play.

[MegaBet]

You can play perfect 4-5 handed SNG strategy and still either get sucked out on by a dumb call or walk into a monster. This is single-handedly the biggest factor in my ROI, even considering the long term effects.

[Degen]

and how about all the times that you push trash and get there?

in the long run, this evens out and you cannot factor suckouts or bad luck into ROI at all...if we are discussing the 'true roi' which of coarse is only theoretical anyway

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
You can play perfect 4-5 handed SNG strategy and still either get sucked out on by a dumb call or walk into a monster. This is single-handedly the biggest factor in my ROI, even considering the long term effects.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're saying that "perfect 4-5 handed strategy" is affected by things out of your control, then you are right...of course it is, thats why no one has a ROI of 100% or more. If you play perfect late game, then, by definition, there is nothing you could do differently there to affect your ROI. Therefore you have to look elsewhere in your game. Not to get caught up on semantics, but I think this is an important distinction.

[lorinda]

While we're being accurate. I believe that the bubble play always has the greatest impact on your ROI. The implied assumption is that in the $100s+ that everyone can do it, so you have to gain ROI from somewhere else.

If someone is losing a lot of money in the $100s, then their bubble play is probably the first place they should look.

Lori

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
While we're being accurate. I believe that the bubble play always has the greatest impact on your ROI. The implied assumption is that in the $100s+ that everyone can do it, so you have to gain ROI from somewhere else.

If someone is losing a lot of money in the $100s, then their bubble play is probably the first place they should look.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, the easy answer is always going to be "bubble play". But that is obvious and boring...In my game, it is almost always a propensity for being loose early that affects my ROI, bc my late game SHOULD be consistent by now.

EDIT: by "consistent" I mean "inconsistent"

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
While we're being accurate. I believe that the bubble play always has the greatest impact on your ROI. The implied assumption is that in the $100s+ that everyone can do it, so you have to gain ROI from somewhere else.

If someone is losing a lot of money in the $100s, then their bubble play is probably the first place they should look.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok we are getting to where I want to be exactly here.

I had always assumed that bubble play was it, but recently in a long bad streak I started feeling otherwise. I have been doing so poorly in my middle play that I assumed that is where my rio was swinging on. Maybe it is, but only on the luck level.

Anyways...Lori
When you say "bubble" , you do mean exactly 4handed right?

[lorinda]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyways...Lori
When you say "bubble" , you do mean exactly 4handed right?


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, excuse my inaccuracy again. Even though that's what it means, I should have clarified that I mean "When the blinds are large and we are not yet in the money" which would usually be 4 handed but sometimes 5-7 handed too.

Lori

[stupidsucker]

ah, so late play. Level 7+ish?

I wasnt sure, because the term bubble is loosely used an awful lot.(I too am guilty). I thought perhaps you meant litteral bubble then, and that does change things a bit.

[MrX]

[ QUOTE ]
You can play perfect 4-5 handed SNG strategy and still either get sucked out on by a dumb call or walk into a monster. This is single-handedly the biggest factor in my ROI, even considering the long term effects.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what causes ROI to have a theoretical maximum. I hope you understand the fallacies in your statement though.

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