My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Your 3-step plan would obviously remove almost all anti-US/ anti-western terrorism. They would have no reason to conduct such attacks anymore.

I think in certain situations foreign interventions can be a good thing but it can't be led by US since US troops are insensitive so much hated that they always end up putting extra fuel on the fire.

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
Your 3-step plan would obviously remove almost all anti-US/ anti-western terrorism. They would have no reason to conduct such attacks anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

This commonly held view exposes a common ignorance of an underlying reality of radical Islam.

If you are not a Muslim, or if you stand in the way of their jihadic visions and efforts, radical Islamists have (in their own minds) more than ample justification to attack you. Just as they have done in the Great Jihads of past centuries.

You guys who think it is all due to Israel, economics, and backlash from slights against the Muslim world, really ought to read a good number of sermons from the mosques, and some more statements by radical Islamist leaders. Heck, they'll TELL you what they're thinking. But you guys are only listening to the side you already think you of. The parts about the rightness of killing non-Muslims, of killing blasphemers and apostates; of spreading Islam over the world by the sword; of carrying out the will of Allah in tormenting unbelievers--those parts you handily seem to ignore, or at least are ignorant of. However if you would really pay attention to what the Islamists are SAYING OUT LOUD you would realize there is far more to this than what you presume.

I'm not saying there aren't economic or backlash components to all this--of course there are. But the underlying Islamo-fascist jihadic theme has been present for many centuries, and if you listen to what its leaders are saying loud and clear, you will realize that no amount of goodwill or appeasement will mollify those truly intent on jihad and following Muhammad's example of religious conquest through force, violence, and coercion.

[FrankTheTank]

I think it's the other way around. Economic and political issues lead to resentment and hate, and then radical fundamentalism is used to galvanize support, because it's always easier to get people to agree with you if you convince them God is on your side (see GWB). Radical Islam is a symptom, not the primary cause, of hatred toward the west, imo.

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's the other way around. Economic and political issues lead to resentment and hate, and then radical fundamentalism is used to galvanize support, because it's always easier to get people to agree with you if you convince them God is on your side (see GWB). Radical Islam is a symptom, not the primary cause, of hatred toward the west, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

You apparently think radical Islam is a relatively modern phenomenon. It isn't.

[FrankTheTank]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's the other way around. Economic and political issues lead to resentment and hate, and then radical fundamentalism is used to galvanize support, because it's always easier to get people to agree with you if you convince them God is on your side (see GWB). Radical Islam is a symptom, not the primary cause, of hatred toward the west, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

You apparently think radical Islam is a relatively modern phenomenon. It isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it isn't. There's a long tradition of religion (not just Islam) being twisted to justify atrocities, i.e. the Crusades and Manifest Destiny. Just as it would be a gross oversimplifaction and a disservice to the religion to say those events were based primarily on radical Catholicism, it's an oversimplification and a disservice to blame the recent terror attacks primarily on radical Islam.

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
You apparently think radical Islam is a relatively modern phenomenon. It isn't.



Of course it isn't. There's a long tradition of religion (not just Islam) being twisted to justify atrocities, i.e. the Crusades and Manifest Destiny. Just as it would be a gross oversimplifaction and a disservice to the religion to say those events were based primarily on radical Catholicism, it's an oversimplification and a disservice to blame the recent terror attacks primarily on radical Islam.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is NOT parallel.

Islam advocates force in order to achieve it's goal of Islam ruling the world. Christianity doesn't.

Mohammed personally led many wars to gain territory and to forcibly place regions under Islamic rule. Jesus didn't.

Mohammed called on Muslims to fight, kill or subjugate non-believers. Jesus didn't.

Islam does not have to be twisted in order to use it to support wars of religious conquest. Conquest is a part and parcel of the philosophical basis of Islam. Mohammed also offered his warriors booty in this world and paradise in the next.

Christianity advocates turning the other cheek when being assaulted, and resisting not evil, and loving one's enemy.

Islam advocates slaying one's enemy, and slaying the enemies of God.

Those who use Islam to advocate war against non-believers are just following the scripture. Those who use Christianity to advocate going to war against non-believers are turning the teachings of Christianity completely upside down.

There have been many misguided Christians who have taken evil actions against others. That is a tragedy but not the point.

Unless you understand that the philosophical bases of the two religions are poles apart in some of the most profound ways, you will persist in thinking it is only the twisting of either that leads to violence. That is simply a factually incorrect view. One religion preaches forgiveness and nonviolence towards others, whilst the other religion glorifies violence and conquest and forcing the world to submit to its own religious rule. Do not confuse the actions of some misguided followers with what the religion actually instructs its followers to do. Look at the actual texts and see for yourself (that is, read and compare the New Testament with the Koran itself, if you wish to gain a deeper understanding of their respective philosophical bases).

[FrankTheTank]

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Do not confuse the actions of some misguided followers with what the religion actually instructs its followers to do

[/ QUOTE ]

It's seems to me you should heed your own advice. I've studied the Bible, and I could go through it and pull out dozens of passages that advocate peace and dozens that could be used to advocate violent, hateful aggression. I have not studied the Koran, but I'm going to go ahead and assume I could do the same thing with it. We both agree that religion can be twisted to garner support and justification, I don't think this is a shock to anyone.

You contend that Islam is an inherently aggressive religion, and that, by extention, Muslims are inherently aggressive people. I disagree, based on the fact that the vast majority of Muslims do not support radical groups like Al Quada, nor do they "fight, kill or subjugate non-believers."

Do you honestly believe this issue is this black and white? Not even President Bush, in all his religious rhetoric, calls this a war against Islam. Why not? If it was that clear, wouldn't he lay it out to garner support? Of course he would, but he can't because he knows that, even for all the bs we put up with, Americans wouldn't buy that. I know it's easier to believe all our enemies are purely born evil with no legitimate grievances, but that's just not how the world works.

[ACPlayer]

The mullahs sermonize to motivate and encourage their troops just like Bush/Rummy denigrate the Islamists to motivate and encourage the American people and our troops.

Here again is some sensible reading on this subject from someone who understands that part of the world: Link again to Salon article

Far better than your normal reading.

[MMMMMM]

That article won't run through my firewall. Shame on them if you have to specifically "allow" their URL in order to view it.

[ACPlayer]

Ah, like you your firewall accepts only politically compatible thought to get through.

Mine lets all sorts of thoughts through and then I decide.