More post-defense

Aaron W. · #1 06-02-2005, 11:51 AM

No reads on anybody. What's your next move? What about the move after that?

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $1.
4 folds, MP2 raises, 1 fold, Hero (poster) calls, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 bets, Hero...

Firefly · #2 06-02-2005, 11:57 AM

I'd fold. You got to see a cheap flop...but it's nothing much to write home about. If one of those 2's was a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I could see a call. KTs is a thoughoughly dominated hand, you could have 6 outs or 3 outs and were not exactly sure which ones we want to hit. So, i think we should fold.

gharp · #3 06-02-2005, 11:57 AM

Getting 8:1 with two overcards I think I'd like to continue. So I think raising to drive out the SB and get it heads up with the thief is a good idea.

The great thing about this board is that you can be pretty sure the thief doesn't have a 2 (he raised preflop), but he can't be so sure about you (you were posting blind). I think it's likely that if he calls and checks the turn, you might take it down with a bet.

If he 3-bets you on the flop, you've got a problem. Against an unknown I'd probably call and fold the turn UI.

istewart · #4 06-02-2005, 12:00 PM

While his opening range is pretty wide, there's still a very good chance not all 6 of your overcard outs are good. You can probably fold, but I think it's close. If you had a backdoor flush draw I would continue.

AmarilloJim1 · #5 06-02-2005, 12:09 PM

IMO...you have to fold..your overcards don't count as full outs...

Isura · #6 06-02-2005, 12:13 PM

Really easy fold.

Aaron W. · #7 06-02-2005, 12:15 PM

Put villain on a specific (albeit broad) range of hands when he open-raises in MP2 against a poster.

KingOtter · #8 06-02-2005, 12:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Put villain on a specific (albeit broad) range of hands when he open-raises in MP2 against a poster.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the kind of stuff I need practice on, so I'll bite.

Any Ace, K9+, Q8+, suited connectors...

He's probably got higher cards than the flop, and seriously doubt he hit the 2 or 4. What you really want is to hit a T so your K plays as a kicker, I think.

I think if you pair up you could take the hand, but I'd have to worry about the A-high if you don't.

KO

Edit: Hmm, I'm having many second thoughts on the suited connectors... maybe 9+ suited connectors (T9s+)

Isura · #9 06-02-2005, 12:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Put villain on a specific (albeit broad) range of hands when he open-raises in MP2 against a poster.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if players at 1/2 even consider the poster in this sitution. But I would raise something like 55+, A7s+, ATo+, KTs+, KJo+, QJs, JTs. The problem with KT is that we have little showdown value, and our outs must be discounted quite a bit in this situation. I don't think we have enough to peel, since our implied odds aren't great either. If villain has any pocket pair or an ace, we are in trouble.

chopchoi · #10 06-02-2005, 12:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Getting 8:1 with two overcards I think I'd like to continue. So I think raising to drive out the SB and get it heads up with the thief is a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem here is you're getting 8:1 to call, but only 5 to 1 if you raise, SB folds, and BB calls. You've got about a 1 in 7 chance of improving on the turn, and even if you improve, you don't know if your hand is any good. Plus the fact that MP2 might 3-bet and really screw up your odds.

However, there are some other advantages to raising as well. If you raise, SB folds, MP2 calls, you miss the turn and MP2 checks, you might be able to pick up the pot right there with a bet. Then again, this could end up costing you even more money if he decides to call you down. You could also see a free river.

I don't know, folding and raising both have their merits. If MP2 is the type who will fold AQ to a bet on the turn if he misses, I MIGHT be inclined to raise here. If I think he will call me down, I fold.

All in all, I think I fold 85% of the time, and raise 15%.