behind the glory: hand rankings

[emp1346]

subfallen, yes you missed the entire question...

siegmund, i kind of see what you're saying, but at the same time, i don't understand what you mean when you say that certain methods over- or under- value a hand... wouldn't that value also be subjective to the definition of goodness, as you already say is subjective as well...

i'm curious as to not necessarily what will get played either, seeing as i'm interested more in which hands, straight up without any consideration of playing ability or playing style, are better...

and again, how would this overvalue suited connectors if they actually do win more often than TT as you imply? if the numbers indicated that this was in fact the case, why would you not be inclined to accept that as truth?

[querulous]

There's too many variables to just state which hand is 'best'. Heads up, TT is about a million times better (note: rough estimate) than T9s. Against 8 other players, T9s is a monster favorite compared to TT. Facing a reraise in a deep stack NL situation, most players would rather have 67s than JJ. Shorthanded in a high blind/short stack situation? JJ is much better than 67s. You suspect your opponent has AA? You'd rather have 66-99 than KK. You have no idea what your opponent has? You'll take KK.

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
There's too many variables to just state which hand is 'best'. Heads up, TT is about a million times better (note: rough estimate) than T9s. Against 8 other players, T9s is a monster favorite compared to TT. Facing a reraise in a deep stack NL situation, most players would rather have 67s than JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

All of the above is incorrect.

[Siegmund]

[ QUOTE ]

i'm interested more in which hands, straight up without any consideration of playing ability or playing style, are better...


[/ QUOTE ]

You can't take the playing style out of it. The list of hands that are best vs tight agressive opponents is different than the list vs loose passive ones. The list of hands also changes with the number of players at the table.

There are hands that are near the top of everyone's list (AA, KK, QQ, AKs) and near the bottom of everyone's list (83, 82, 72, 32 and their friends). All the hands in between WILL be in radically different places depending what criteria you use. There ISN'T any one "right list."

[ QUOTE ]

and again, how would this overvalue suited connectors if they actually do win more often than TT as you imply? if the numbers indicated that this was in fact the case, why would you not be inclined to accept that as truth?


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If you're in a game packed to the gills with limpers and calling stations, it's the truth that suited connectors are very valuable. If you're in a game where every hand is raised preflop and two or three people are taking the flop, 87s is just two random pieces of cardboard. The list based on 9 random hands all going to the river will (very, very) badly mislead you about the value of suited connectors and cost you a whooole lot of money if you follow it in a real game that's not loose-passive.

[SycoFrogg]

Don't forget position

["spaceman"Bryce]

IM SO CONFUSED [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]I hope i get AA then we can ask ourselves "why is it better?"