#1
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Undervaluing small PPs?
Yesterday I discussed a hand here where a UTG+1 who's VPIP was 14% limped first in. A poster who's opinion I respect said that he would expect a 14% VPIP to play suited broadways and any PP from that position (in the hand, UTG+1 limped w/ 44).
Last night, playing 10/20 on Party, the play went: UTG raises, 3 folds, MP2 calls (w/33)... After the hand, when I politely mentioned that cold-calling in that position might not have been the most prudent play, several players disagreed with me. A table would have to be pretty loose/passive for me to limp in EP w/ 44 and I would virtually never call a UTG raise 2nd in w/ 33. Am I undervaluing my small pocket pairs? |
#2
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Re: Undervaluing small PPs?
[ QUOTE ]
A table would have to be pretty loose/passive for me to limp in EP w/ 44 and I would virtually never call a UTG raise 2nd in w/ 33. Am I undervaluing my small pocket pairs? [/ QUOTE ] These are 2 totally different situations. The cold call with 33 in MP is pretty bad unless your postive just about everyone behind you has a VPIP of about 70 and loves to cold call. Limp EP 44 is all together different. Honestly, I'll say this. If you can't limp with a small pp in EP and you're playing a party skin SS, go find a different game. |
#3
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Re: Undervaluing small PPs?
Do you feel comfortable playing 10/20? The cold call with 33 stinks. Calling first in with 44 in utg+1 is table dependant (don't know how the average 10/20 table looks like but I have a feeling folding would be fine).
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#4
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Re: Undervaluing small PPs?
[ QUOTE ]
10/20? [/ QUOTE ] That's a good point. I've not seen the 10/20 tables, so I can't talk about that. I did specify SS in my reply, which I still stand by. |
#5
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Re: Undervaluing small PPs?
For purposes of this post, please ignore the 10/20.
Maybe a more direct question would be what stats does your table have to have for you to limp in EP w/ 22-55? Cold call an EP raise 2nd in w/ 22-55? Limping, I would need something like 35/5. I can't think of a situation I'd cold call a raise. I may reraise a really loose raiser, but never cold call. Too tight? |
#6
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Re: Undervaluing small PPs?
[ QUOTE ]
Limping, I would need something like 35/5. I can't think of a situation I'd cold call a raise. I may reraise a really loose raiser, but never cold call. Too tight? [/ QUOTE ] I'm not up with tables stats. However, I'm wanting to see something like 5 + to a flop as standard to limp small pp. I don't think I'd ever reraise anyone in EP with small pp. Cold Calling with a small pp is standard in a situation like this. UTG raises, 3 calls to you in CO or button with 33, cold-call. |
#7
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Re: Undervaluing small PPs?
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe a more direct question would be what stats does your table have to have for you to limp in EP w/ 22-55? Cold call an EP raise 2nd in w/ 22-55? [/ QUOTE ] I would never cold call 2nd in with 22-55 (and only on very, very rare occasions reraise). [ QUOTE ] Limping, I would need something like 35/5. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think you should look that much on table stats, they're often misguiding. But at passive tables with reasonable looseness I would limp every time. At good 2/4 tables I use to limp. |
#8
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Re: Undervaluing small PPs?
[ QUOTE ]
UTG raises, 3 calls to you in CO or button with 33, cold-call. [/ QUOTE ] I'm specifically talking about cold calling when 2nd in. |
#9
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Re: Undervaluing small PPs?
[ QUOTE ]
Limping, I would need something like 35/5. [/ QUOTE ] I assume the "5" there is a table-avg for Pre-Flop Raise? I think the table-average PFR stat doesn't matter that much (unless it's unreasonably high - where you at a table full of maniacs). I don't really care too much if I'm playing for one bet or two before the flop - I'm more interested in making sure there are 3-5 callers in with me padding the pot. Of course this changes if there's a really aggressive player directly on my left because I don't want his raises constantly knocking all the players behind out of the pot. The reverse would be true (as I believe someone already mentioned) where if the aggressive player was on your right but, there were several loose/cold-call-happy players on your left you could maybe get away with cold-calling a few of this player's raises. |
#10
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Re: Undervaluing small PPs?
oh..then, yeah, bordering on never.
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