The dreaded 2nd nuts.

TylerD · #1 03-01-2005, 05:03 PM

Preflop raiser is reasonably tight and hasn't gotten out of line yet.

Party Poker Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $1 BB (9 handed) converter

BB ($73)
Hero ($213.87)
UTG+1 ($100)
MP1 ($230.35)
MP2 ($95.72)
MP3 ($120.4)
CO ($110.8)
Button ($94.28)
SB ($95.25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $1.
Hero calls $1, UTG+1 (poster) checks, 3 folds, CO calls $1, Button raises to $3, 2 folds, Hero calls $2, UTG+1 calls $2, CO calls $2.

Flop: ($13.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $6, CO calls $6, Button calls $6, Hero calls $6.

Turn: ($37.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets $35.65, Button calls $35.65, Hero calls $35.65, UTG+1 calls $35.65.

River: ($180.10) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks, Button bets $49.63 (All-In), Hero calls $49.63, UTG+1 calls $49.63, CO calls $49.63.

Final Pot: $378.62

Terrible?

CavemanDoc · #2 03-01-2005, 05:56 PM

I call this bet. With no low, you stand to gain a huge pot.

The only hand you're worried about going against is AAxx. With 4 people in the hand pre-flop (all who called raises pre-flop), and with the A in your hand, it is unlikely that only one person has the other two A's. Chances are much more likely that 2 people have one A each.

People tend to call raises with an Ace in their hand.

I make that call; if I lose, oh well, I pay the guy off.

Yads · #3 03-01-2005, 07:53 PM

You have the 3d nuts both ways in a multi way pot. I'm either betting/raising or folding. There's no way I'm overcalling the turn.

Wu36 · #4 03-01-2005, 08:41 PM

Agreed, I doubt one person has you beat both ways but calling could get you scooped. I'd probably raise and try to knock the 3rd player out. Of course I'm a bad player so my opinion probably doesn't mean much.

iblucky4u2 · #5 03-01-2005, 09:35 PM

I have to think your turn check/call is terrible. I classic case of weak/passive poker.

Once the button doesn't raise on the flop or the turn, I can't play him for pocket aces. You HAVE to re-raise here. Otherwise you are letting your oponents draw out on you without making them pay the price.

On top of that, you could easily scoop here. Your 45 is the 3rd nuts and there were no aggressive raises anywhere.

I say call the river and scoop [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

johnnybeef · #6 03-02-2005, 12:32 AM

preflop: you need to fold this one utg. i really dont play anything without a suited a2 in that position.

flop: you hit top 2 with the second nut low, i like a check raise.

turn: 2nd nut low and high. pot it.

river: you have to call as you are only beaten by aa/34. i once read that the only time overcalling (granted this advice applies to limit) is when you hold the second nut in both ways.

all in all you had an above avg. holding on the flop, and a great holding on the turn. you need to get more aggressive, especially in pot limit play as it is necesarry to get this one heads up.

TylerD · #7 03-02-2005, 06:05 AM

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I have to think your turn check/call is terrible.

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Why?

There aren't many cards that can hit that will allow someone to draw out on me. I'd hate to pot it and get raised by the preflop raiser.

[ QUOTE ]
On top of that, you could easily scoop here. Your 45 is the 3rd nuts and there were no aggressive raises anywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are four callers there's a good chance that the 2nd nuts at least is out.

TylerD · #8 03-02-2005, 06:06 AM

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preflop: you need to fold this one utg.

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No way, not in a loose/aggresssive online game.

Gooch · #9 03-02-2005, 06:27 AM

I wouldve raised on the river putting UTG+1 and CO allin for a few more bucks, hopefully they both have a low and the allin Button assume he has AA. If your 8's full is good for half the side pot it'll make you a couple of dollars(better than nothing if you lose the main)

johnnybeef · #10 03-02-2005, 09:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
preflop: you need to fold this one utg.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way, not in a loose/aggresssive online game.

[/ QUOTE ]

that is all the reason more to fold...what you are saying is basically like saying you will play Ac8c utg in a loose aggro game in holdem. Ask yourself what needs to hit in order for your hand to continue past the flop. with your hand you are looking for a combination of a 2 a 3 and some spades or AA8. You hit a longshot on this one.