STT basic strategy checklist

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
A good player is able to do this without putting their whole stack at risk. I don't understand when 2+2 players are afraid to play hands like AJ in position because they don't want to get into trouble with it. Who says you have to get in trouble with it? If the flop comes, A54 there's no law saying that you have to put all your chips in when someone raises you.

[/ QUOTE ]

in this situation, you are only going to get action when you are beat. period. thats why people dont put themselves in this situation. so how do you play your aj in position? limp? say someone limps with 55 and slowplays. check call the flop, check raise the turn, now you have 700 chips instead of 1000. things like that is why in a SNG you dont waste your chips early. the advantage better players have is very small with 1k chips and the escalating blinds. that is why survival is key. you make it down to the final 5, you are splitting 2 grand between 5 people. i think people give way too much credit to outplaying people on the early rounds. survive, then make money.

[Phil Van Sexton]

Let me say first that I can't speak to the play at the $200s. I only play up to 50/5.

Anyway, you say that I'll only get action if beat. This may be mostly true, though you'd certainly get called down by Ax or draws.

However, that's exactly my point. If you raise to 60, get 2 callers. Now the pot is 180. I'll bet 100 on the flop and anyone with 66, KQ, etc will give it up immediately. That's all I'm looking for. I don't want to get paid off. I want to win small-medium pots with minimal risk.

If called, I'll slow down. I'll often check behind on the turn and call a small bet on on the river. This depends on a lot of factors.

At the 200/15 level, maybe players won't let you get away with this, but at the lower levels players will just fit-or-fold on the flop without putting up a fight.

[Scuba Chuck]

I hope this discussion continues.

I often wonder which strategy is better
1) Tight, survive - play strong poker at the bubble
2) Play early, aim to have a larger chipstack at the bubble, where you can do some damage.

I wonder what the probabilities are of ending up with 1000+ chips playing more "loose."

I have been experimenting with this strategy a little the last 3 days. Frankly, I don't think I'm very good anymore. I just don't think there's enough chips to play with (PP - 800 starting chips) to give you the folding equity required later on.

That being said, my hand selection could leave a lot to be desired. I aim to continue this idea - offset by some tight play in other games to maintain some bankroll. Perhaps reading Harrington on Hold'em would help...

IMO, tight play early gives you the credibility that you need to make that one blind steal that you need to have on that 100/200 level which ensures your survival. With the vast number of players multi-tabling, I'm just not sure if this is true. Any opinions?

If I play tight, and get to the 50/100 level with 650 chips I have found that I need to steal once this round, and twice the following round to make it in the money. If I am not successful at these three attempts then I will be OTM for sure.

Phil, how can I really open up the game more, and feel confident I'll be in the money as high as I currently doing? 40%.

Scuba

[Mr_J]

I don't usually double up early, but maybe win a couple of pots that are enough to keep me even until it's time to make a move. I usually steal my way to the bubble and have enough to pick my battle. I face my 'coinflip' and am either OTM or ITM.

When I double up early I feel like it doesn't makes that big a difference. Just a bit more of a buffer if I need it.

I'm also not usually a big stack (not until HU anyway).

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
tight play early gives you the credibility that you need to make that one blind steal that you need to have on that 100/200 level which ensures your survival.

[/ QUOTE ]

Blind steals and playing loosely in late position are 2 different things. Opponents who are aware will still respect a blind steal even if you called with JTo or raised with A9 earlier.

Be aware that I'm not talking about playing lots of hands, just a few more. I'm really talking about late position on the first 3 levels in an unraised pot. That's only 5-7 hands, and you'll still fold garbage like T2o, so you'll play even fewer than that.

As for your image, playing like this will help your chances of doubling up with AA or KK. If you play super tight, then raise big, you may not get paid off, even at party.

Most SnG players are terrible post flop. Other than check-raise traps, they really have nothing to offer. Take advantage of this.

A check or min-bet means they have nothing or a monster (usually nothing). Make a bet and be prepared to fold.

Once you get reasonable stack, you can put people to the test. If I have 1400 and I'm in a $200+ pot against someone with 500-600, I'll bet $200 on any flop if he checks. As Doyle and Mike McD said, the key to NL is put your opponent to a decision for all of *HIS* chips. I'm risking $200 to win the $200 pot. He is effectively risking his tournament to play the hand. It's not all about blind stealing.

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
A check or min-bet means they have nothing or a monster (usually nothing). Make a bet and be prepared to fold.

Once you get reasonable stack, you can put people to the test. If I have 1400 and I'm in a $200+ pot against someone with 500-600, I'll bet $200 on any flop if he checks. As Doyle and Mike McD said, the key to NL is put your opponent to a decision for all of *HIS* chips. I'm risking $200 to win the $200 pot. He is effectively risking his tournament to play the hand. It's not all about blind stealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

hm.. so in position (button, co, co-1), limp in w/top 40%? then if checked/min bet to you on a two tone flop, bet pot?

1) How often do you succeed Phil?
2) And what happens if he calls, then bets 1/2 pot on the turn?
3) or checks on the turn (and you check) and bets 1/2 pot on the river (and you have middle pair)?

[morgan180]

In Harrington on Hold 'em he talks about 3 different styles of play for tournament players.

Conservative
Aggressive
Super Aggressive

It seems to me that the optimal STT strategy is to progress through these styles of play as the tournament progresses. Early levels stick to the premium hands since the risk/reward ratio is not great, in most cases. As the blinds increase you open up to take advantage of tighter players who are squeezing their chips. Then as you get to the bubble you open up to steal as many of the large blinds as possible. You are able to open with many many hands. Optimal STT strategy is not optimal NL strategy and vice versa. Optimal NL strategy from an advanced player can be more successful than ABC STT strategy - I think everyone agrees with that.

Harrington goes on to state that the aggressie style of play requires more skill to play successfully and employing optimal NL strategy in a STT requires more skill as well and will be more successful than any formulaic method.

That being said new players starting out are well-served by the guides and the basic rules.

[lacky]

[ QUOTE ]
That being said new players starting out are well-served by the guides and the basic rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

true, but I don't think it is mentioned enough around here that that is a beginer stratagy that should be moved away from as soon as the skill is developed. The super tight play early is almost gospel around here and is wrong if you play well. The first round the blinds are small and the stacks are deep. Thats the ideal game conditions for a good nl player to take advantage of lesser players mistakes. When the blinds are large compared to the stacks the game is ruduced much more to luck. If I can outplay the bad players for their chips while the tight players are sitting out I don't have to get lucky later, I've already doubled.

Steve

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
hm.. so in position (button, co, co-1), limp in w/top 40%? then if checked/min bet to you on a two tone flop, bet pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll only bet the pot if its less than $100. Otherwise, I'll bet maybe 60% of the pot, minimum 100. Pot=125...I bet 100. Pot=200...I bet 125.

If there is a min-bet ahead of me, I might bet a bit more since this usually comes from someone who caught a small piece of the flop. They are betting to see if there 3rd pair is good, and will fold if someone shows strength.

In a side game, I usually do bet the pot or close to it. In a tournament, the stacks are not as deep, so I want to keep the pot small even if I have top pair.

The turn is trickier. If they bet into me, I'm going to fold most of the time.

When they check and I'm against more than 1 opponent, I'm usually going to check behind. If I'm bluffing, it's unlikely I'm going to be able to get multiple people to fold, especially since they already called once and now the pot is getting big.

If I have something (like top pair), I'll often still check behind multiple opponents. I'm probably ahead, but don't want to build an enornmous pot that I can't get away from. By showing weakness by checking, this encourages hands worse than mine to bet on the river. Since the pot is not huge, I can call most 1/2 pot sized bets on the river.

If against 1 opponent on the turn and they check, I will check behind a lot, but not all the time. I will bet if I strongly suspect a draw or if I have a decent hand or if I have a decent stack. I'll often bet 50% more chips than I bet on the flop.

If checked to me on the river by 1 opponent, I'll often check behind. However, I'm not opposed to value betting a good hand if both of us can afford it and there are no obvious draws.

[valentine]

[ QUOTE ]

When they check and I'm against more than 1 opponent, I'm usually going to check behind.


[/ QUOTE ]

I feel your check-a-lot-on-turn strategy can often reduce the pot you win. A lot of player would more gladly call your bet on the turn , because they want to see the river. If you bet only on the river then these people will fold there if the river misses them, and you will win less.
So the basic strategies "don't give free cards" and "collect the money on the turn" should not be completely thrown away.