K9o TP on the flop

[Pharity]

Hi there!

Wasn't sure if this is a 3-bet or fold on the flop. SB is a LAG, BB is TAG and MP2 is a calling station. Perhaps someone wants to raise PF aswell? I didn't expect a PF raise to make it heads up though, because the looseness of the players to my left.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP2 calls, Hero (poster) checks, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP2 calls, Hero?..

Whaddya think?

[Petteri]

I think you should fold.

Pot is yet small and your hand does not stand the action. Three players are already in the pot. Set or two pair is possible here. Straight draw is also out. Even If you ahead half of the deck potentially hurts you.

[Nick Royale]

I usually raise preflop, is CO and button loose? Even if both have a vpip of ~35-40% I expect to get them both to fold more than 60% of the time and buy position With that tight BB pretty often get it HU as well. (if we're talking loose like both ~50% vpip I like the check).

At the flop we need to consider that BB's hands are random. He could have hands like 99/22/33/92/32 etc. That being said he's also pretty likely to raise any 9 (or even PP's lower than 9's) to isolate the LAG. You also have to consider if the TAG is aware SB is a LAG, since otherwise he's pretty likely to fold 9x with x lower than a 9. Another important aspect is the size of the pot. You need to invest 3SB in a pot of the size 10SB to continue playing this marginal hand.

Taking all this into consideration I would fold this hand. The TAG is likely to have us beat and if not there are 2 other players in the pot that might. If we're ahead there are tons of cards that hurt us and I don't like that big investment in a pretty small pot.

[ErrantNight]

fold, maybe raise preflop

[ QUOTE ]
Hi there!

Wasn't sure if this is a 3-bet or fold on the flop. SB is a LAG, BB is TAG and MP2 is a calling station. Perhaps someone wants to raise PF aswell? I didn't expect a PF raise to make it heads up though, because the looseness of the players to my left.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP2 calls, Hero (poster) checks, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP2 calls, Hero?..

Whaddya think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not, this is an easy three bet. The BB is raising with any 9 here, and probably 44+. There are WAY more combinations of 9's then there are two pair or better hands. if the TAG were not in the BB it would be much different.

[The Legend]

Small pot, no big draws possible to semi-bluff, a bet, raise , AND a cold caller, you will be behind too much, and when ahead, will get outdrawn frequently. I'd fold.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi there!

Wasn't sure if this is a 3-bet or fold on the flop. SB is a LAG, BB is TAG and MP2 is a calling station. Perhaps someone wants to raise PF aswell? I didn't expect a PF raise to make it heads up though, because the looseness of the players to my left.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP2 calls, Hero (poster) checks, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP2 calls, Hero?..

Whaddya think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not, this is an easy three bet. The BB is raising with any 9 here, and probably 44+. There are WAY more combinations of 9's then there are two pair or better hands. if the TAG were not in the BB it would be much different.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking that there's many 9s and worse PPs that will raise here too (especially if the TAG knows the LAG is LAG), and that putting Villain on such a narrow range of strong 9s and 2p/sets is a little tight.

But, I also have a huge amount of respect for both Nick and EN as posters, and I'm loathe to question both of them agreeing on something. Would either of you be interested in addressing this post?

I mean you could think "LAG is betting anything, TAG knows this and is trying to isolate with a pair of nines or something", but I think we are outthinking ourselves as a vast majority of the time this action means we are behind. I would need evidence that BB is really a TAG and not just a guy with decent PT stats. Even then it is pretty marginal to continue here.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi there!

Wasn't sure if this is a 3-bet or fold on the flop. SB is a LAG, BB is TAG and MP2 is a calling station. Perhaps someone wants to raise PF aswell? I didn't expect a PF raise to make it heads up though, because the looseness of the players to my left.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP2 calls, Hero (poster) checks, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP2 calls, Hero?..

Whaddya think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not, this is an easy three bet. The BB is raising with any 9 here, and probably 44+. There are WAY more combinations of 9's then there are two pair or better hands. if the TAG were not in the BB it would be much different.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking that there's many 9s and worse PPs that will raise here too (especially if the TAG knows the LAG is LAG), and that putting Villain on such a narrow range of strong 9s and 2p/sets is a little tight.

But, I also have a huge amount of respect for both Nick and EN as posters, and I'm loathe to question both of them agreeing on something. Would either of you be interested in addressing this post?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to be offensive, but I've always been known to speak my mind. Think for yourself. Look at their post again, and try to think why they said what they said. Pot size is always an important factor.

First step in deciding how to proceed with a hand that does not have enough outs to proceed if it is behind is to figure out what range of hands your opponent likely has.

What does a TAG need to raise a random opponent (lets not be putting reads into his head) on the flop on this board?

How does our hand compare to that hand range?

[peterchi]

**Since there's like only 3 hand discussions on page 1 right now, I'm gonna try and bump some of these others up there.

If I hadn't already posted the blind, I'd fold this pre-flop. But since you're already in and there's only one limper, raising is better than checking.

It's true that the pot is tiny, but there's a ton of likely hands for SB and BB that you're ahead of. I'd 3-bet. Not too thrilled about it though.