the amount of cheating in poker

[hot tub man # 1]

I've been fooling around on RPG a bit lately and keep coming across numerous posts about cheating. One former cheat, who doesnt appear to be too popular among the rest of the posters claims, there is cheating the majority of high stakes poker games. How can this be true if the same well known players, Hennigan, Forrest, Harmon, etc keep beating the games? How much card marking and collusion really goes on at the higher limits? Anyone have a good idea?

This same player also claims to be cashing out 5 figues a month playing online, so perhaps I shouldnt take his opinions so seriously.

[D.J.]

One of my pro friends in Vegas didn't say there is a lot of cheating going on, however, my friend did say that at least 2 very high profile players were cheaters that they knew of, and would never play in the same game as them. I don't know how much factual info there was behind that or speculation, but I wouldn't expect to hear BS from this respected pro. I'm not really worried about the players that were mentioned b/c I'm not going to be playing that high any time soon, however, I can say that there is a fair amount of collusion/team playing at upper mid-limits that I KNOW of. Cheating is not rampant, however it does exist, wherever there is money involved, you can bet scams are near. One more quote from my Texas buddies, "The fleas come with the dog".

-D.J.

[Grambo]

You are a fool if you don't listen to what Russ has to say. He knows of which he speaks. I was fired from 2 different LARGE cardrooms for going to management when I saw what was going on. I don't post on RGP, but read most every post written about cheating, and can verify a lot of what Russ says from PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE, and have heard a lot more from reliable sources. Anyone to think a poker table with thousands of dollars on it isn't going to try to be scammed in some way by someone is a fool.

[**MR.MANHATTAN**]

plenty of cheating going on,from the philipino mafia at the 1-2 games in comm. to the highest stakes games in bellagio........russ might not be liked,but he's honest.

[Howard Burroughs]

Hi MM,

Can you back up your Bellagio statement with any proof?

Or is this just more of your misinformation ala Vegas rakes, Western poker room, your comments on Nick B & Russ H, your comments about the El Cortez players & managment teaming up against tourists (LOL), etc,etc,etc!

I know you told Dave Keiser that most of your posts are meant to be funny. Being a fountain of misinformation is no laughing matter IMHO.


I don't mean to sound sour, but coming to 2+2 and saying what you just said about the Bellagio is pretty serious stuff. How about some facts to back it up?


Or an apology to Doug Dalton?


Thanks in advance.


Best Wishes

Howard

[Tommy Angelo]

"I don't mean to sound sour, but coming to 2+2 and saying what you just said about the Bellagio is pretty serious stuff. How about some facts to back it up?"

Howard,

I am woefully uninformed on this topic because when people talk about bad stuff that has no effect on me, I run away with my ears covered.

But ...

And I ask this not just of you, but of anyone concerned about cheating at the big games at the Bellagio.

Why do you care?

Let's say it was proved, or merely conjectured, that there was cheating on the PGA golf tour. Would that affect any of your golfing decisions?

I just don't see how the goings on inside one of the smallest player pools in the country has anything to do with you or me.

with warmth,

Tommy

[PokerBabe(aka)]

Tommy, I do not have any information about whether cheating occurs at Bellagio, and thus, I am certainly not qualified to comment. I can only say that I think we should win by skill rather than shill. And, like Howard, I care because I think cheating is wrong at any time, at any place, in any game, and with any player(s). Just because we don't play in those games does not mean we aren't interested in their integrity. Babe [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

[Jimbo]

Tommy were these players born high rollers or did they perhaps work there way up through the ranks like many players here on these forums aspire to do? If the latter is more likely then why would they just now start cheating (if they are, I am not accusing anyone of that at all)? So your comment about why would Howard care is way out of line or at the very least not well thought out prior to your posting. If it is possible to work your way up so to speak by cheating then we would be at risk at most any limit. Make any sense Tommy? Sticking your head in the sand simply makes you look like an ostrich.

"I am woefully uninformed on this topic because when people talk about bad stuff that has no effect on me, I run away with my ears covered." I believe I have addressed this comment sufficiently.

"Let's say it was proved, or merely conjectured, that there was cheating on the PGA golf tour. Would that affect any of your golfing decisions? " Last time I checked this was a poker forum. Ask this same question on a golf forum and marvel at what kind of responses you elicit.

"I just don't see how the goings on inside one of the smallest player pools in the country has anything to do with you or me." I hope after reading my post you will at least reconsider this statement.

Edited Below:

Although I think some of your poker theory is a bit kooky I have come to respect you through your posts on this forum as well as your articles. Please do not take the matter of potential cheating in poker lightly whether you believe it affects you directly today or not.

Regards,

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Everyone:

My position is that you should always be vigilant in the games that you are in. I'm not as confident as I once was to the games at the middle limits being totally clean.

It seems as though they have gotten a little tougher, probably due to the poor economy, higher rakes, and terroism threats. Thus certain fairly good players are not doing as well as they once were, and this leads to increased pressure on their life styles. So I feel that certain combinations in some of the games need to be watched closer. So again, always paying attention, and helping to police the games is important.

Best wishes,
Mason

[D.J.]

Howard,
I don't know who you are, or anything about you, but I'm going to assume you've been around a little bit. You've got to know that cheating goes on EVERYWHERE from home games to casinos, and I'd venture to say that private games are more straightforward than casinos, the ones I've played in at least do background checks, no casino will ever do that. So, knowing that cheating does exist why would you not accept the fact that cheating goes on at one of the top poker rooms in the world being the Bellagio. People will take an edge anyway they can get it, like I said in my earlier post, it's probably not rampant, but come on you know it happens. I refuse to believe that every poker game I sit in is 100% clean 100% of the time, no matter what the limit or the place. You defend the Bellagio as if you were part owner, like the place is exempt from having cheats come in. It seems to me that if I were a cheat, the Bellagio would be a prime spot seeing how they routinely spread some of the highest limits anywhere in the world, does the casino do a background check before you get to play w/ the big chips, I don't think so, all you gotta have is money, and cheats will find a way to do their job. Scams are all around you open your eyes and just accept it, it probably rarely occurs, but to say that it doesn't at all is very naive.

-D.J.