Open Raise UTG (Poll)

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
Go here. Pokerroom Stat/calc page

Based on all the hands played at pokerroom. A huge database of hands. you can input the hand, how many player at the table, position, etc...and QTs has a higher EV then QJo.

In first position in a 6 handed game QTs has an EV of +.16. QJo in the same positon has an EV of <font color="red">-.14</font>. Basically a .3 BB swing.

These stats and charts are updated daily. Its a good resource, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. I had no idea there would be such a disparity.

[Victor]

that chart is useless to us bc it for 4 reasons:

1. its from full table
2. its not corresponding to openraising.
3. its the ev from all players, most of which are losing, and therefore playing incorrectly.
4. there are so many discrepancies it is ridiculous anyway.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i voted with the majority on all but the first 4. as a default i fold the first 3 and raise QJo. maybe that doesn't make sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's tough to argue QJo is stronger than QTs.


[/ QUOTE ]


on the button after limpers maybe, but when you're likely to be playing up against 2 players with top 40% hands, QTs is dominated more often. I'd rather have A8s than A9o as I just posted but other than that I like the high card value

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i voted with the majority on all but the first 4. as a default i fold the first 3 and raise QJo. maybe that doesn't make sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's tough to argue QJo is stronger than QTs.


[/ QUOTE ]


on the button after limpers maybe, but when you're likely to be playing up against 2 players with top 40% hands, QTs is dominated more often. I'd rather have A8s than A9o as I just posted but other than that I like the high card value

[/ QUOTE ]

Josh,

The fact that QTs is dominated more often is mitigated quite a bit in 3-way pots by the opportunity to make more nut hands, isn't it? Equity calcs aren't the greatest way to run these sets of hands but QTs performs better, all-in, than QJo, with two people holding top 40% hands.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that QTs is dominated more often is mitigated quite a bit in 3-way pots by the opportunity to make more nut hands, isn't it? Equity calcs aren't the greatest way to run these sets of hands but QTs performs better, all-in, than QJo, with two people holding top 40% hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rob, you are correct but we are in 6-hand or less situations and QJo is going to play much better in the long run versus only 5 random hands than QTs.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i voted with the majority on all but the first 4. as a default i fold the first 3 and raise QJo. maybe that doesn't make sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's tough to argue QJo is stronger than QTs.


[/ QUOTE ]


on the button after limpers maybe, but when you're likely to be playing up against 2 players with top 40% hands, QTs is dominated more often. I'd rather have A8s than A9o as I just posted but other than that I like the high card value

[/ QUOTE ]

Josh,

The fact that QTs is dominated more often is mitigated quite a bit in 3-way pots by the opportunity to make more nut hands, isn't it? Equity calcs aren't the greatest way to run these sets of hands but QTs performs better, all-in, than QJo, with two people holding top 40% hands.

[/ QUOTE ]


I assumed QJo would win more often. even 3 handed QTs fairs better interestingly

I voted with the majority on every single option except QJo.

I really like QJo utg. Over my 40k hands recorded in pt, QJo utg is a significant winner.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]

I really like QJo utg. Over my 40k hands recorded in pt, QJo utg is a significant winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your sample size is absurdly small. You need 40k instances of QJ utg, not 40k hansd with a few hundred instances of QJ utg.

Surf

This is true, and I might be results-orientated in this regard, but so far its working for whatever reason

[TStoneMBD]

40k divided by 6 = 6666 times hes been UTG in a 6max game (if he has 40k hands of 6max, but hes got alot of 5/4/3 handed im sure).

so say hes been dealt the utg spot 6666 times. the odds of getting QJo are 1/110.5 i believe.

6666/110.5 = 60 times.

hes been dealt QJo 60 times UTG AT MOST and probably hasnt even raised every single time.

hardly enough to calculate a winrate of a hand. thats like saying i played 60 hands of poker today, won 5BB/100 i obviously must rule at poker.