I'm very sorry

[maurile]

The quality of this forum improved when moderation of the trolls was stepped up a while back, and I appreciate the effort Dynasty and Mat have put into it.

That said, Paul Phillips was not a troll, and nothing in his deleted post was moderation-worthy (IMO).

Banning him is an even worse decision than (effectively) banning Abdul was.

2+2 will still be the best poker discussion forum on the 'net even with Paul Phillips gone, at least in the short run and probably for the forseeable future.

Just don't ban Barry Greenstein, Gigabet, Fossilman, and MajorKong next. They are all in the same category as Paul Phillips and Abdul Jalib were -- consistently insightful posters whose thoughts are (were) always worth reading. Axe too many of those guys (and similar posters), and everyone else will start to leave as well.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
The quality of this forum improved when moderation of the trolls was stepped up a while back, and I appreciate the effort Dynasty and Mat have put into it.

That said, Paul Phillips was not a troll, and nothing in his deleted post was moderation-worthy (IMO).

Banning him is an even worse decision than (effectively) banning Abdul was.

2+2 will still be the best poker discussion forum on the 'net even with Paul Phillips gone, at least in the short run and probably for the forseeable future.

Just don't ban Barry Greenstein, Gigabet, Fossilman, and MajorKong next. They are all in the same category as Paul Phillips and Abdul Jalib were -- consistently insightful posters whose thoughts are (were) always worth reading. Axe too many of those guys (and similar posters), and everyone else will start to leave as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. I think Dynasty and Mat are doing an excellent job of improving the quality of this forum and others on this site.

Some people abuse the Internet to post all sorts of insults, obsenity, etc. This forum in particular attracts people who are not good poker players who like to insult and harass "celebrities" they see on TV, and post various other garbage.

It seems, however, that the disagreements with Paul Phillips could be resolved in a less public and confrontational manner. The impression is given that criticism is not acceptable.

Moderators need to keep the real garbage posts out of the forum. However, as the other poster said, the moderation should be as invisible as possible. This has not been the case on this and some other forums.

[augie00]

[ QUOTE ]
Paul:

You have now been permanently banned from this site.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[zipo]

I just reread the post by Paul Phillips (which was reproduced on his own website) that led to his permanent banning on 2+2.

I must say that I am absolutely astonished that he would be permanently sitebanned for that post (or more accurately, for refusing to publicly and privately apologize for making that post). Of course, I do acknowledge (as 2+2 is a private, corporate forum) your absolute right to be as unfair, capricious, or draconian as you choose.

I would also like some clarification or guidance, if you would kindly deign to do so, as to whether such comments or observations by myself and/or others are tolerable or at least permitted.

Thank you very much in advance for your considering my humble question.

[davehwm]

[ QUOTE ]
I just reread the post by Paul Phillips (which was reproduced on his own website) that led to his permanent banning on 2+2.

I must say that I am absolutely astonished that he would be permanently sitebanned for that post (or more accurately, for refusing to publicly and privately apologize for making that post). Of course, I do acknowledge (as 2+2 is a private, corporate forum) your absolute right to be as unfair, capricious, or draconian as you choose.

I would also like some clarification or guidance, if you would kindly deign to do so, as to whether such comments or observations by myself and/or others are tolerable or at least permitted.

Thank you very much in advance for your considering my humble question.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you read the thread, you'll see that it was Mat Sklansky that deleted the entire thread. He claims it was an accident and only should have deleted the first post.

May I offer a few suggestions (as a moderator, myself):

1) If there are multiple moderators per forum, there should be a clear understanding as well as open communcation between these moderators as to what is allowed and what is not allowed.

2) Create a moderator's forum where things like this can be discussed.

3) When deleting a post, don't leave (pompous) comments such as "I got at least half a dozen suspensions out of this thread" or "Three more suspensions. Eventually, some of you will get the point". Instead, clearly state who was suspended, and why.

4) Clarify the T&C, perhaps even using examples, so that everyone knows what they will and will not be suspended for. This is especially important since the T&C are now being more "strictly" enforced.

I respect the moderators and owners of this board greatly for their poker skill, but they sure aren't doing a very great job of running a messageboard.

[toots]

Huh.

After a couple years of reading this forum, I have witnessed outright misogynism (comparing notable female players to street walkers and other women of loose virtue), homophobia, continual attacks on the personalities of both name-brand players as well as other posters here, and a continual stream of trolling from a small but vocal subset.

But what Paul said got Paul banned?

Nice.

[zipo]

>>but they sure aren't doing a very great job of running a messageboard.<<

What struck me as odd was the demand to Phillips that he 'apologize privately...and publicly' for his 'transgression', or be permanently banned.

Essentially, this was a demand that he grovel for the privilege of being allowed to post here, where it was extremely difficult to see where his post even remotely violated the posted TOC.

That's what led to my earlier speculation that perhaps there is more going on here behind the scenes than we are all privy to, because on the face of it the 'offense' and the demand for private and public apology seems frankly bizarre.

[Snoogins47]

[ QUOTE ]
>>but they sure aren't doing a very great job of running a messageboard.<<

What struck me as odd was the demand to Phillips that he 'apologize privately...and publicly' for his 'transgression', or be permanently banned.

Essentially, this was a demand that he grovel for the privilege of being allowed to post here, where it was extremely difficult to see where his post even remotely violated the posted TOC.

That's what led to my earlier speculation that perhaps there is more going on here behind the scenes than we are all privy to, because on the face of it the 'offense' and the demand for private and public apology seems frankly bizarre.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems to make a lot of sense to me. Think back to high-school. Remember that teacher? (We ALL had one) The one who was painfully dorky, but ruled their classroom with an iron fist? As naive 16 year olds, we thought they were just mean. Truth is, we just got the [censored] end of the knee-jerk power trip that stemmed from a lifetime of 'Hey punk, gimme your lunch money' and prom dates with family members.

[ThaHero]

I'm pretty shocked by these recent events.

I'm absolutely terrified to post here now, in forums that aren't strategic and I'm giving an opinion on a matter other than raising preflop. I thought I had an understanding of the rules and Terms etc., but it seems they are open to interpretation by the moderator(s) as well. I'm really worried I'm going to be banned for this post as a matter of fact.

I would hope the moderators would start to look at a person's posts on a whole and not just single out one or two and ban that person. Deletion is sometimes warranted, and if bad behavior persists, maybe ban that person. But we have lost quite a few quality posters just because they made some posts that, for the most part, were on the fence as to whether they should be allowed or not.

Hopefully the forum members and moderators can reconcile whatever prompted such a widespread censorship and make things more cut and dry. Hopefully the overall quality of the forums improve as well.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm absolutely terrified to post here now

[/ QUOTE ]

People who are taking this view are overreacting.

First, I haven't banned any WPT forum poster. I have suspended several for posting insults directed at either other posters or TV players. They're all be back after a few days off.

If you don't put up posts insulting other posters or players, you're not going to be suspended. I don't see why anybody would get huffy when following that rule is essential to maintaining an enjoyalble, non-hostile forum.