why do u never hear about some book authors winning anything?

[alittle]

[ QUOTE ]
The answer is none. I'll let others elaborate as to the reason why.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, for one, almost every "player's" book will mention Sklansky in some way and he gets "indirect" advertising that way. The man behind the man if you will.

Since he is known for the analytical approach, being a "personality" probably won't help him too much. I think there are a few reasons why people buy books. One is "how to play" and another is "why I play like I do". I think that people are interested in material from Raymer, et al because they want insight into their style more than the mechanics.

Maybe if there was a way for TV to read David's mind and show the calculations as he made them, then maybe TV exposure would be great. Otherwise though, it seems like it would be hard for celebrity to work for him. Everyone seems to want to know "Why did [Phillips, Hansen, etc] do that? Why do they play like that?" When the answer is "because it was mathematically correct" would not be so compelling.

Now obviously David is not an automaton (I don't think), and has to play with "feel" in addition to great mechanics, but I think celebrity works better in this context when the subject is a bit of a character or wins in spite of perceived "not-by-the-book" play.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
For the record it applies in dance, mostly ballet. Most ppl who do it for years don't have the figure/height/weight/feet to work in a professional company so they teach it. That's why they are always mean old ladies.
But that's the extent to which I've seen it applied.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you calling Sklansky a mean, fat old lady whose feet hurt? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Wayfare]

You saw like 5% of the hands on TV. You think that it is possible, just possible, that a judgement about a player's skill might be inaccurate when you have only seen 5% of the plays? Did you see the dozens of hands that raymer raised and no one called? If you had watched the simulcast on pokerstars (almost no way that you did this or you wouldn't be saying these things), you would realize the error of your ways.

You also realize that the TV format is slanted towards the time when people have big hands and go all-in, or simply the times that suckouts occur?

I think your statements are out of line with the information that you have based them on. Re-evaluate.

[sillyarms]

In TPFAF on page 135 near the bottom.
[ QUOTE ]
About the only person who should consider playing two aces in this spot is me, since the extra book sales a World Championship would give me might swing the decision to a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

It says right here in a 2+2 book that extra publicity means more book sales. What am I missing?

silly

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
who cares how long a guy has been posting here? that does'nt mean you go plop down $30 beans on a book of tournament essays.....the guy won ONE big tournament and his previous tournament resume does'nt even stack up to all the cojones-blowing that folks are giving him on this site.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would buy Fossilmans book even if he hadn't won the wsop. Same goes for anyone that demonstrates a very good knowledge of the game over a long period of posts on here or rgp. Especially as that means they will have shown a willingness to sincerely share info, in contrast to most pros who write books and hold back their best. i.e. Hellmuth and Cloutier.

I wouldn't be that interested in a book written by Miami John or Men Nguyen, or any number of players that have had tournament success.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would definitely be more inclined to buy a poker tournament book written by Men "The Master" rather than Greg Raymer. you want a testament to what Men can teach you does? all you have to do is take a look at the tourney success of Van Pham, Minh Nguyen (2 time WSOP bracelet holder), and his cousin, David Pham (one of the best tournament players in the world). i doubt very seriously that any tutelage or advice from Greg has produced any where near the success in other players than Men's has in these three. BAR NONE! buy a book by Greg over Men. yeah, right! sounds more like who you know and who you're familiar with. where i come from, that's still not worth spending $30 beans. you gotta come with more than that.

[shaniac]

alittle, your argument seems to miss a basic principle about marketing and completely misses the most "compelling" aspect of any poker player/personality--winning.

Mason,
I really have little idea of what you mean and I'd love for you to explain it rather than throw out the haughty "I'll let others elaborate..." that you and Sklansky are so fond of putting out there. Reading your mind should not be a prerequisite for trying to study your thoughts and strategies. Not sure what the idea is there...

Anyway, any publicity is good publicity as far as I can see. Just ask Ashlee Simpson.

This is not to say that if Sklansky busted out first of every tournament it would be beneficial to book sales, but...

Perhaps what Mason is pointing out is that Sklansky's value as an author exists independently of his performance in high profile tournaments. Fair enough. But Mason, if you are asserting that high profile/big cash finishes for David would not be good for 2+2 book sales, I think you need to hire a publicist.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, maybe the language of the original post that Mason responded to leaves room for interpreation. While Sklansky's book sales might not be hurting as a result of his absence from TV Final Tables, there's no way to argue that performing well in such a setting would be -EV for book sales.

Shane

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
alittle, your argument seems to miss a basic principle about marketing and completely misses the most "compelling" aspect of any poker player/personality--winning.

Mason,
I really have little idea of what you mean and I'd love for you to explain it rather than throw out the haughty "I'll let others elaborate..." that you and Sklansky are so fond of putting out there. Reading your mind should not be a prerequisite for trying to study your thoughts and strategies. Not sure what the idea is there...

Anyway, any publicity is good publicity as far as I can see. Just ask Ashlee Simpson.

This is not to say that if Sklansky busted out first of every tournament it would be beneficial to book sales, but...

Perhaps what Mason is pointing out is that Sklansky's value as an author exists independently of his performance in high profile tournaments. Fair enough. But Mason, if you are asserting that high profile/big cash finishes for David would not be good for 2+2 book sales, I think you need to hire a publicist.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, maybe the language of the original post that Mason responded to leaves room for interpreation. While Sklansky's book sales might not be hurting as a result of his absence from TV Final Tables, there's no way to argue that performing well in such a setting would be -EV for book sales.

Shane

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe this is part of the reason i ask why he [David] is considered a tourney poker guru.

[M2d]

have you ever read anything Greg posted here prior to his win? Greg's proven, time and again, here and on RGP that he understands poker in general, and tournament poker specifically. He's also proven that he can clearly and concisely relate that understanding in writing.
The fact that he won a big tournament means nothing when assessing the value of his book (assuming he writes one). the only thing that matters is whether the reader can trust that the information related is accurate and relavent. Greg has proven, time and again, that his book would be.
Men, et al, have not.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
have you ever read anything Greg posted here prior to his win? Greg's proven, time and again, here and on RGP that he understands poker in general, and tournament poker specifically. He's also proven that he can clearly and concisely relate that understanding in writing.
The fact that he won a big tournament means nothing when assessing the value of his book (assuming he writes one). the only thing that matters is whether the reader can trust that the information related is accurate and relavent. Greg has proven, time and again, that his book would be.
Men, et al, have not.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe that's because Men has'nt shown an interest in writing one. yet and still, your argument seems to be based on him posting on 2+2 than anything else. tournament for tournament, i'd pick Men any day. it's no comparison.

[shaniac]

A few things Desdia:

I don't know that anyone has ever called Sklansky a 'tournament guru.' I don't think tournaments have ever been his forte or his passion.

Also, his performance in tournaments is not the sole indicator of his value as a tournament author, it's how well he describes strategic concepts.

I think that TPFAP contains some essential concepts but the work on the whole is half-hearted; something necessary to read and understand as PART of one's tourney game, not the entirety.

Elsewhere in the thread you indicated that you'd rather read a book by Men the Master over FossilMan. The only way I'd choose a book by Men over a book by Greg is if Greg was the ghostwriter. In other words, Greg's ability to describe situations and analyze essential concepts of tournament poker thoroughly and clearly made him a valuable literary resource a long time before he won $5 Million.

Check TJ Cloutier's book. It seems unlikely that TJ does as well as he does by subscribing to the advice he peddles. TJ is undoubtedly a great tournament player but his writing on the subject paints an incomplete picture.

The good news is that the poker market has ripped wide open, which is excellent for the consumer (us). It's not too much of a stretch to imagine that the three books by Harrington and FossilMan due to hit the market will render most of the printed literature on tournament poker obsolete.

Shane