Raising Preflop

[damaniac]

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Regardless, I refuse to play in games like this, so it doesn't really matter to me.

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Ok cool. Good for you. But then I don't see why you'd even bring this up. In this poker forum most of us are striving to improve, and not only to get better at beating loose passive games but all kinds, especially the tougher ones at higher levels. And most anyone who has posted here for any length of time should know that we raise most of our hands for value (AA, I want 9 callers, etc). So it's all well and good to say "I don't need to steal/raise for fold equity", but for most of the people here, we need to learn and work on those situations where our raise may not be for value in terms of pot equity but for fold equity. And so I guess I just don't see what relevance this whole thread has in really educating anyone. It's just sort of "This is what I do" and we say "good for you"? Or is there something I'm missing?


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Isolation raising is really just value raising by another name.

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Sort of. If I raise a limper on the button with A7o or something and get called by the SB and BB, I'm not sure how much of an equity edge I have. Now if we're counting fold equity as a part of "value", then yes, raises are always for value. If you're talking in terms of pot equity, I don't know that it's always the case. I agree we aren't usually raising with a significant disadvantage, but that doesn't mean it's a pure value raise all the time either, it has to do with fold equity then and on later streets.

[jackdaniels]

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Now if we're counting fold equity as a part of "value", then yes, raises are always for value.

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I think this is key.

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Now if we're counting fold equity as a part of "value", then yes, raises are always for value.

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I think this is key.

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Let's take this down a level. Explain fold equity.

[Nick Royale]

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When I raise preflop I am not hoping people will fold. Ever.

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I think you need to start stealing blinds.

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When I raise preflop I am not hoping people will fold. Ever.

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I think you need to start stealing blinds.

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It is extremely rare for it to be folded to me in late position in the games I play in.

[sy_or_bust]

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It is extremely rare for it to be folded to me in late position in the games I play in.

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you keep saying this, and its really dumb. if its true, than the games discussed here are vastly different (and tougher) than the games you play in. thats OK. but if you aspire to move up stakes or play tougher games, you need to learn how to play in these special situations where you can boost your winrate by punishing loose players and weak blinds. ignoring these situations cannot be good.

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It is extremely rare for it to be folded to me in late position in the games I play in.

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you keep saying this, and its really dumb. if its true, than the games discussed here are vastly different (and tougher) than the games you play in. thats OK. but if you aspire to move up stakes or play tougher games, you need to learn how to play in these special situations where you can boost your winrate by punishing loose players and weak blinds. ignoring these situations cannot be good.

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I punish loose players constantly. As for playing in tougher games I have no desire to do so. I am confidant I can find loose limit games as far as my foray into limit hold'em will take me.

[Nick Royale]

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It is extremely rare for it to be folded to me in late position in the games I play in.

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you keep saying this, and its really dumb. if its true, than the games discussed here are vastly different (and tougher) than the games you play in. thats OK. but if you aspire to move up stakes or play tougher games, you need to learn how to play in these special situations where you can boost your winrate by punishing loose players and weak blinds. ignoring these situations cannot be good.

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I punish loose players constantly. As for playing in tougher games I have no desire to do so. I am confidant I can find loose limit games as far as my foray into limit hold'em will take me.

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What limit at what sites are you playing? If you're playing party 1/2 and have no desire to move up I can understand what you're saying.

I agree with her about this and I cant see how it's dumb.

When I play 2/4 live in our casino I notice the same thing. The games are so loose that I rarely even get the chance to open, much less open raise to try to steal the blinds.

That's merely an observation, Im not sure why it would be "dumb".

And if I understand her point, I think she's just pointing out the reasoning behind raising, it's not like she's necessarily doing anything any diffrent than anyone else.

[Nick Royale]

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I agree with her about this and I cant see how it's dumb.

When I play 2/4 live in our casino I notice the same thing. The games are so loose that I rarely even get the chance to open, much less open raise to try to steal the blinds.

That's merely an observation, Im not sure why it would be "dumb".

And if I understand her point, I think she's just pointing out the reasoning behind raising, it's not like she's necessarily doing anything any diffrent than anyone else.

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I don't think discussion is gooing anywhere, but playing 3/6 online you'll be facing steal/isolating-situations on a regular basis.