$20-40 Floor Ruling, Ethics?

[slavic]

I fail to see how this is any different than the tricky play who say "I just call one time", or the wild guy who suddenly starts to chirp , "Please don't call", or the guy who bets on the river and starts looking at his cards, shows it to his friends.

In fact, this is a cash game, if you want to turn your hand face up, why not?

[bernie]

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I fail to see how this is any different than the tricky play who say "I just call one time", or the wild guy who suddenly starts to chirp , "Please don't call", or the guy who bets on the river and starts looking at his cards, shows it to his friends.

In fact, this is a cash game, if you want to turn your hand face up, why not?

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Some do turn it face up. I can think of 3 that do that right now. Many more that do what you mentioned...haha



b

I can imagine some of you guys playing baseball:

Batter pops up weakly to the infield. Umpire puts his fist in the air, signaling the infield fly rule. The shortstop lets the ball drop in front of him, picks it up, then tags second and runs to first to tag the runner.

Umpire: you can't do that. Infield fly rule. Batter was out as soon as I called it.

Shortstop: That's a stupid rule. If I want to let the ball drop, that should be tough nuts for the baserunners.

Umpire: Its a rule for a reason.

Shortstop: We should be able to play the ball. It's in play. The hitter shouldn't have popped it up if he didn't want the double play.

Umpire: Can we get security out here?

You can actually get disqualified from some tournaments for talking about your hand. Mike Caro doesn't like it either, but it is what it is. Get over it. Talk about the other person's hand if you feel you need to let your knowledge flow.

And showing your hand is, of course, usually plain stupid, and that's why it's allowed.

[Clarkmeister]

Absurd.

[Don Olney]

Head -up I say TALK ALL YOU WANT--- but Howard not in a pot with 3 or more players----
What if the board is like this--
A-k-9-7-2 rainbow
you have trip A,s---
One player says to his friend in the hand---I can beat trip J's but not trip A's ---as his friend is ready to bet -- now the friend that was ready to bet tosses is trip 9's into the muck -- yuo just lost a bet from him because of table talk---I have a feeling you would be very upset about this---
So in short NO no table talk about hands with a multi player pot --- I know if it was me in the pot I would have called the floor in a heart beat-----

[Rick Nebiolo]

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Overall, I am inclined to do nothing about these situations, as they are so commonplace it's almost pointless to bother. However, I'd ultimately have to very slightly side on the philosophy of Randy R on this one, it's basically more of a bad thing that could hurt the game and drive out the fishies. Still tho, unless some local nits get their panties in a bunch, I'm not going to go out of my way to intervene when this type of thing happens.

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Essentially agree with you and Randy on this one.

Especially in no limit it seems half the table is auditioning for a job as WPT/ESPN commentator (fortunately I haven't heard any ex-wife jokes [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]). Usually it's a sign of a good game, but sometimes it goes over the top.

~ Rick

[Lottery Larry]

Aren't their collusion possibilities here? As a general idea, not this specific case.

[RedRum]

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On the turn, in a very big multiway pot (Queen high board), guy in the 8 seat says (I'm in the 2 seat)......

"You bet with a lot of confidence".

I say, "Because I can beat a queen".

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How is saying you can beat a queen any worse than telling the table that someone bet with a lot of confidence? I'm with you on this...

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If you want to be really nity, "I can beat a queen" could mean that you can just beat queen-high since a pair of queen was never specified.

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You could also say "Big weasel's poppin a big one on Tuesday in the bathtub." Either way, it can be interpreted as collusion.

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My personal favorite is just to say: "That's because I've got you beat" or "Only because I'm going to win this pot"

Drink More,
RedRum

[andyfox]

In the bad old days, Crazy Mike used to say something like "I have four of a kind." He's then turn over two cards and say, "No, wait, I have a full house. Then a third card, "Uh, I think I have three sixes." Etc.

While I think this ruling is silly, I do see an argument for not allowing talk about somebody else's hand. I once had somebody, thinking of calling me say, "So you made the straight, huh?" Which I had. He folded and now the next guy, who hadn't even realized there was a straight possible, started counting on his fingers and, realizing that I might have a straight, just called with top set, where he would likely have raised had the other guy not alerted him to the possibility.

[phish]

I realize what you did was harmless enough, but there really is a very good reason for not talking about a hand during a multi-way pot. And that is because the info you give, though available to all opponents, is not of equal value to all opponents. A contrived example:

Player A has AA, B has AK, C has QJ. board is TAKxx with flush possibility. Player A bets out, B calls, and C hesitates. Let's say C is usually a timid player who doesn't want to get reraised by a flush. A misinterprets his hesitation as between calling and folding and wants him to call, so he says honestly, 'I promise I don't have a flush.' C believes him and raises. Both call. A's comment has now cost B an extra bet.

I'm sure you can easily think of better examples where someone talking about a hand costs someone else a pot.

the fact is, whatever info you reveal about your hand by talking is not of the same value to all players in the hand. It can lead to hurting a 3rd player, and this could be construed as a sort of unintentional collusion.