I get fancy with 22

[oreogod]

I think on this flop either c/c or bet/call is the way to go. On the turn Id bet out.

I dont think guy is folding overs to a turn cr.

[spydog]

Keeps this one simple. This is a great flop for you and you need to protect your hand, if possible. Just lead the flop and hope BB raises and knocks out UTG. From there I just call down, only folding if an Ace or Queen hits on the turn or river.

[RunDownHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
on a side note, I wonder what set will hold up most. a set of deuces makes a straight much less likely, but can lose on xxyy2 boards, or to a higher set. against 3 limping hands, a set of deuces will probably hold up the most

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you not seen the huge trainwreck Sklansky started by implying (maybe) that 44 was better than 77?

And wackjob, you completely missed the boat on this one. Again.

[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

*cries*

[ QUOTE ]
you can complete there, deal with the occasional raise, and fold every time you don't flop a set, and turn a profit.

[/ QUOTE ]

*smiles*

If this is your default then you're spewing chips. But in the right situation against the right opponent it can be the right play.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]

Have you not seen the huge trainwreck Sklansky started by implying (maybe) that 44 was better than 77?

[/ QUOTE ]

I read that but not well. it was about 8 million replies deep before I first saw it. I'm assuming it's because people try too hard to turn a profit with a pair of sevens, while we tend to play more fit-or-fold with the fours?


[ QUOTE ]
And wackjob, you completely missed the boat on this one. Again.

[/ QUOTE ]

I put him on my ignore list a long time ago. I suggest you do the same

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
Check-raising the flop is just asking your opponent to outplay you. I check-call the flop and evaluate my options after I see the turn card.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is how I feel as well. I can also see a lot of merit to betting out on the flop and letting the BB raise us. I've played this exact line in the past and Jeff is dead on - check raising this flop gives BB every opportunity to outplay us.

[RunDownHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
I read that but not well. it was about 8 million replies deep before I first saw it. I'm assuming it's because people try too hard to turn a profit with a pair of sevens, while we tend to play more fit-or-fold with the fours?

[/ QUOTE ]
If I remember correctly it was because there was a better chance of someone making a second-best hand like TP/MP/2P with 44 than 77.

[JrJordan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Check-raising the flop is just asking your opponent to outplay you. I check-call the flop and evaluate my options after I see the turn card.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is how I feel as well. I can also see a lot of merit to betting out on the flop and letting the BB raise us. I've played this exact line in the past and Jeff is dead on - check raising this flop gives BB every opportunity to outplay us.

[/ QUOTE ]

I woke up this morning and saw 20+ replies for this thread. Nice. Agreed that a bet/call line on the flop would've been easier to play on later streets. Given that I c/r'ed though, I think putting in one more turn bet with a raise isn't bad at all. I can get an overcard hand with up to 10-12 outs to fold. And it appears no one agrees with me on this, but I think there is folding equity for a 88-JJ type hand to muck it. It's an easy fold to a 3-bet since I'm drawing to 2 outs at best. Lastly, I can check the river and have a very good chance of seeing a free showdown vs. a better hand considering the strength I've shown. So if I'm going to see a showdown, this turn/riv combo costs me the same 2BB the majority of the time as it would by calling down, plus it gives me the opportunity to fold a hand with outs, or even fold a better hand out.

The villain did end up folding, however I felt there was a good chance I was spewing here so it felt post-worthy. I'll take a more passive line next time.

Edit: I'm still surprised that no one thinks 88-JJ folds here. Is this an adjustment I should personally make at this level, because I have made some of these tough folds against solid TAG players on warranted basis.

[Danenania]

To employ a generalism: when you are HU against an overly aggressive player at 10/20 who you do not have a very solid read on, and your hand has some showdown value, any play that jeopardizes your likelihood of seeing a showdown is usually a bad idea. This is ESPECIALLY true on a paired board, a drawy board, or any other time when the opponent is unlikely to give you credit for a hand regardless of how you play.

The frequency with which hands like flush draws, A-highs, and total garbage a la 43o and the like will 3-bet your turn checkraise without a second's hesitation in this spot is truly awe inspiring.