raising the flop for value - countings outs exercise

[Fantam]

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Are you talking about betting or calling the flop when you say you don't like to look at flop to river odds? If the pot is big enough, you should generally call with strong BD draws (like a BDFD to the nut straight) on the flop. You have to re-evaluate the turn, of course, but you can't discount flop -> river odds completely, which is why we assign outs to those draws.

I'm not sure you're disagreeing with this in your post, but it wasn't clear to me whether you were talking about betting/raising or calling.

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I wasn't very clear, sorry. I was talking about deciding whether or not to bet or raise a draw for value on the flop.

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Just to clarify an earlier post. I was including outs to a bdfd in my considerations as to whether to bet/raise a flop for value, because the outs were to a nut hand.

I was not doing the same for outs to pairing the Ace, because they were not outs to a nut hand.

I would consider all the outs when deciding whether to call the flop.

I dont know whether other posters would agree with my approach or not, but that was the basis for my considerations. I also agree that 1.5 outs wont have a huge impact on the decision most of the time.

Anyway in this particular hand, I think that it was clear that the OP did not have enough equity to bet the flop for value.

[GTSamIAm]

This is a thin value raise. You have 5.5 outs to strong hands, and maybe 1.5 outs for your ace. I like it, though. Even if you get a little less than even money, you're getting implied odds when you hit.

7 outs. 4 outs for gutshot. 1.5 outs for draw to Ace (reduced from 3 because of weak kicker). 1.5 outs for backdoor flush.